Southampton comes third worst in school league tables (From This is Hampshire)

This doesn't surprise me, and neither does the news about Portswood and Highfield... my own daughter's primary has got bigger and bigger, and the Head is obsessed with healthy eating, at the cost of basic education, we're all sick of the subject! we know what to feed our children now move on! neither will they admit to any mistakes they make.... it's got beyond a joke! She is now having a private tutor to help her as I've lost all faith, even though some of the members of staff do try really hard and I'm grateful to them at least. We need some good quality head teachers to turn the failing schools around, instil a sense of pride in the children and staff.

An exceptional school without a doubt is Springwell Special School in Thornhill, it's one of the best of it's kind in the country. It's outstanding, and I can't say enough good things about it.

I must admit that I do find this report hard to believe. My son goes to Shirley Warren Primary School, and I would recommend this school to anyone who asked. He does extremely well for a boy of his age, and always gets the required help from his teachers. And the teachers are just brilliant there.

I can only presume that some schools in Southampton are bringing the better ones down.

A disproportionate amount of time is spent on non-english speaking youngsters, so it's obvious that the others will have less teaching time.

What is needed, are extra multi-lingual teachers.

the biggest problem is the size and number of pupils that the schools have to teach, right wing ideals is to have those big super schools like they have in the states. and with that comes lower standard of education.

freemantlegirl2 wrote:
This doesn't surprise me, and neither does the news about Portswood and Highfield... my own daughter's primary has got bigger and bigger, and the Head is obsessed with healthy eating, at the cost of basic education, we're all sick of the subject! we know what to feed our children now move on! neither will they admit to any mistakes they make.... it's got beyond a joke! She is now having a private tutor to help her as I've lost all faith, even though some of the members of staff do try really hard and I'm grateful to them at least. We need some good quality head teachers to turn the failing schools around, instil a sense of pride in the children and staff.

An exceptional school without a doubt is Springwell Special School in Thornhill, it's one of the best of it's kind in the country. It's outstanding, and I can't say enough good things about it.

Springwell is an exceptional school, that goes without saying, but lets not forgot it's not a mainstream school, it was built with the needs of it's pupils in mind, as it should be, but being a specialist school it had/has more resources than mainstream schools.

Councillors Paul Holmes and Ben Walker should been demanding more money from the councils budget to spend on the cities primary schools, these children are the future of this city, so we should invest, invest, invest, to ensure our children have the best the education systems has to offer.

I'm glad to read my son's school is seen as exceptional, they've certainly worked hard to reach his needs as he shows signs of being gifted in Maths. Just a shame the school he will go on to- Cantell, is so poor. People of Southampton have not been proactive in challenging poor standards of teaching in secondary schools hence why we have so many kids being failed. We need schools like Wildern and Thornden, not Cantell and Millbrook.

No comment from Clive Webster on this?

Condor Man wrote:
I'm glad to read my son's school is seen as exceptional, they've certainly worked hard to reach his needs as he shows signs of being gifted in Maths. Just a shame the school he will go on to- Cantell, is so poor. People of Southampton have not been proactive in challenging poor standards of teaching in secondary schools hence why we have so many kids being failed. We need schools like Wildern and Thornden, not Cantell and Millbrook. No comment from Clive Webster on this?

What do you propose to do when your son reaches secondary age CM?
Do you put up with poor standards and send your son to Cantell, Do you move home or do you attempt to have your son privately educated via a Bursary or Entrance exam? So do you become proactive with regard to his education or do you put up with the "shame"?

Size matters.
When it comes to the education for the brats of the upper classes they have minimum pupils per teacher in Eaton and Harrow etc and for the kids of working classes they want to stretch the ratio to the very maximum.
Rather than taking advantage of fall in number of pupils our Council has been closing the schools and asset striping by selling the lands.
New Labour’s Tory ideas of Academies are wrong paths leading towards the same destructive greed ridden direction.
They are deliberately trying to undermine the education of working class kids, by making good education available only for the offspring of the rich in public schools.

My View from the Hill wrote:

freemantlegirl2 wrote:
This doesn't surprise me, and neither does the news about Portswood and Highfield... my own daughter's primary has got bigger and bigger, and the Head is obsessed with healthy eating, at the cost of basic education, we're all sick of the subject! we know what to feed our children now move on! neither will they admit to any mistakes they make.... it's got beyond a joke! She is now having a private tutor to help her as I've lost all faith, even though some of the members of staff do try really hard and I'm grateful to them at least. We need some good quality head teachers to turn the failing schools around, instil a sense of pride in the children and staff.

An exceptional school without a doubt is Springwell Special School in Thornhill, it's one of the best of it's kind in the country. It's outstanding, and I can't say enough good things about it.

Springwell is an exceptional school, that goes without saying, but lets not forgot it's not a mainstream school, it was built with the needs of it's pupils in mind, as it should be, but being a specialist school it had/has more resources than mainstream schools.

Councillors Paul Holmes and Ben Walker should been demanding more money from the councils budget to spend on the cities primary schools, these children are the future of this city, so we should invest, invest, invest, to ensure our children have the best the education systems has to offer.

Totally agree MVFTH that more money should be put into all schools. I should have mentioned that i also have two sons with special needs/disabilities who were in mainstream but i moved them out as they couldn't cope, although the second school were very inclusive and did a fab job it was only infants so they had smaller classes and numbers. I just wanted to celebrate something that the city has done really well. I may also add that I think Ken is correct, I have the same problem with secondaries, i.e the choice is dismal. However, Bellemoor (now Upper Shirley High) has been turned into a really positive, growing school by Cassie Ellins, now pupils are wanting to go there! Millbook school no longer exists btw!

Ken Hutchinson wrote:

Condor Man wrote: I'm glad to read my son's school is seen as exceptional, they've certainly worked hard to reach his needs as he shows signs of being gifted in Maths. Just a shame the school he will go on to- Cantell, is so poor. People of Southampton have not been proactive in challenging poor standards of teaching in secondary schools hence why we have so many kids being failed. We need schools like Wildern and Thornden, not Cantell and Millbrook. No comment from Clive Webster on this?

What do you propose to do when your son reaches secondary age CM? Do you put up with poor standards and send your son to Cantell, Do you move home or do you attempt to have your son privately educated via a Bursary or Entrance exam? So do you become proactive with regard to his education or do you put up with the "shame"?

Labour took away assisted places so I'll either have to live like a church mouse and send him to King Edwards or try to do what Michael Gove is proposing in parents taking over the running of failing schools. I'd love for him to go to a grammar school, we desperately need one back in the city

Paramjit Bahia wrote:
Size matters. When it comes to the education for the brats of the upper classes they have minimum pupils per teacher in Eaton and Harrow etc and for the kids of working classes they want to stretch the ratio to the very maximum. Rather than taking advantage of fall in number of pupils our Council has been closing the schools and asset striping by selling the lands. New Labour’s Tory ideas of Academies are wrong paths leading towards the same destructive greed ridden direction. They are deliberately trying to undermine the education of working class kids, by making good education available only for the offspring of the rich in public schools.

Never miss an opportunity to get your lefty ideas over Paramjit. You must be the only person on the forum to be able to turn any subject into a Tory bash! You even managed to turn a football story into a political debate. Great. I think you need to take up fishing, to give your obsessed brain a chance to rest. But then the size of the worm would probably be the Tories fault too? We all love people who are passionate about a subject, but you seem to relate everything to your political opinion. Give it a rest. You are damaging your party even more than it already is.

Well said Ian from North Baddesley ... Paramjit's rants are vitriolic against the Conservatives at every tenuous chance.

Its an extremely long time ago since I taught primary and secondary kids, but I think that possibly one of the reasons why children are failing is that they are being tested to destruction and they are being taught to formulas, not to subjects?

That means that they dont grasp the breadth and depth of a subject; its just the bits that the examiners want.

Whats being blocked off therefore, is a huge swaythe of information that broadens a subject out and enables the child to see things in context. That way, teachers are educating to the level of a child's intelligence and not to the level of their rote abilities.

Humans are not designed to be educated in a robotic fashion; it is fantastic what the human brain can take in and thats what we should be striving for in our education system, not endless discussions about faddy food intake, etc? I sometimes wonder how these people become head teachers and how some of the higher ups end up designing SATs.

We need a system that is designed around the individual child and his or her intelligence, not some robot formula.

Regards to all, Donald.

What a brilliant post Donald, I totally agree you are spot on!

freemantlegirl2 wrote:
What a brilliant post Donald, I totally agree you are spot on!

Ditto.

Children have extraordinary, perhaps infinite, ability and talent to learn and a hunger to immerse themselves in a personal quest for discovery and knowledge. They are fascinated about themselves and the World in which they live.

They do their " learning", informally, all the time every single day, by learning from and with their friends.

In a formal setting, they learn best when their curiosity is sparked/challenged in demanding and creative ways that excite them in ways that recognise , acknowledge and respects their individuality as people.

They are not machines.

They should not be viewed or treated as machines.

A production line, linear model, of teaching is going to produce grey, uniform, clones who are them put through the hoops of tests.

What is the value of this, either to the student or to their community?

sw = copy good

clausentum wrote:

freemantlegirl2 wrote: What a brilliant post Donald, I totally agree you are spot on!

Ditto. Children have extraordinary, perhaps infinite, ability and talent to learn and a hunger to immerse themselves in a personal quest for discovery and knowledge. They are fascinated about themselves and the World in which they live. They do their " learning", informally, all the time every single day, by learning from and with their friends. In a formal setting, they learn best when their curiosity is sparked/challenged in demanding and creative ways that excite them in ways that recognise , acknowledge and respects their individuality as people. They are not machines. They should not be viewed or treated as machines. A production line, linear model, of teaching is going to produce grey, uniform, clones who are them put through the hoops of tests. What is the value of this, either to the student or to their community? sw = copy good

On the PM programme on Radio 4 they interviewed a teacher from a comp in Surrey over changing Science GCSE to BTEC. When asked if the BTEC was better he refused to answer. When they interviewed Michael Gove later he commented that the lack of rigour in modern education is putting our kids well behind our European rivals.

Condor Man wrote:

clausentum wrote:

freemantlegirl2 wrote: What a brilliant post Donald, I totally agree you are spot on!

Ditto. Children have extraordinary, perhaps infinite, ability and talent to learn and a hunger to immerse themselves in a personal quest for discovery and knowledge. They are fascinated about themselves and the World in which they live. They do their " learning", informally, all the time every single day, by learning from and with their friends. In a formal setting, they learn best when their curiosity is sparked/challenged in demanding and creative ways that excite them in ways that recognise , acknowledge and respects their individuality as people. They are not machines. They should not be viewed or treated as machines. A production line, linear model, of teaching is going to produce grey, uniform, clones who are them put through the hoops of tests. What is the value of this, either to the student or to their community? sw = copy good

On the PM programme on Radio 4 they interviewed a teacher from a comp in Surrey over changing Science GCSE to BTEC. When asked if the BTEC was better he refused to answer. When they interviewed Michael Gove later he commented that the lack of rigour in modern education is putting our kids well behind our European rivals.

As an adult, I wanted a professional qualification to enter my chosen profession. One of the many subjects i had to learn was Law. One of the many test hoops I had to get over to gain my qualification was successfully completing a strenuous written test to establish I had learned all the Law taught to me.

I saw no point in learning parrot-fashion all the Law put in front of me so opted out of the Law classes.

This method of "teaching" replicated my experience of formal school education and seemed both pointless and offensive in the sense I was expected to fill my brain with a massive amount of Law that by definition was constantly becoming out of date. I concluded what I REALLY needed to learn, to equip myself in my career, was to understand the overal framework of the Law and how to ask questions of the Law and where to go to ask the questions so that I was actually equipped with a basic workable knowledge and a confidence, when working in my career, to find Law answers for myself.

I resented being viewed as a machine with a mind that was an empty vessel simply to be filled up with dull, sterile, detailed, out of date information that had little relevance to my future work in my chosen career.

I still had to pass test.

The day before the test I and a similar minded maverick student spent the entire day swatting all the Law books on our reading list. We had a good supper, set the alarm for 3am and awoke to spent another 4 hours swatting - this time firing questions at each other. We ate a hearty breakfast then sat the 4 hour Law exam, with all that swatting fresh in our minds and in our memories. We both passed the test.

What is the point of this little narrative?

We are are not machines. We are stunningly unique individuals with an astonishing capacity to learn.

When taught in ways that recognises this, we can dazzle are teachers and astound ourselves, with our extraordinary gifts and talents as people.

Children are the future. They deserve our very best efforts to set the model, design the platform, for them to learn and then to go on and contribute to and gain from their future World.

clausentum wrote:

Condor Man wrote:

clausentum wrote:

freemantlegirl2 wrote: What a brilliant post Donald, I totally agree you are spot on!

Ditto. Children have extraordinary, perhaps infinite, ability and talent to learn and a hunger to immerse themselves in a personal quest for discovery and knowledge. They are fascinated about themselves and the World in which they live. They do their " learning", informally, all the time every single day, by learning from and with their friends. In a formal setting, they learn best when their curiosity is sparked/challenged in demanding and creative ways that excite them in ways that recognise , acknowledge and respects their individuality as people. They are not machines. They should not be viewed or treated as machines. A production line, linear model, of teaching is going to produce grey, uniform, clones who are them put through the hoops of tests. What is the value of this, either to the student or to their community? sw = copy good

On the PM programme on Radio 4 they interviewed a teacher from a comp in Surrey over changing Science GCSE to BTEC. When asked if the BTEC was better he refused to answer. When they interviewed Michael Gove later he commented that the lack of rigour in modern education is putting our kids well behind our European rivals.

As an adult, I wanted a professional qualification to enter my chosen profession. One of the many subjects i had to learn was Law. One of the many test hoops I had to get over to gain my qualification was successfully completing a strenuous written test to establish I had learned all the Law taught to me. I saw no point in learning parrot-fashion all the Law put in front of me so opted out of the Law classes. This method of "teaching" replicated my experience of formal school education and seemed both pointless and offensive in the sense I was expected to fill my brain with a massive amount of Law that by definition was constantly becoming out of date. I concluded what I REALLY needed to learn, to equip myself in my career, was to understand the overal framework of the Law and how to ask questions of the Law and where to go to ask the questions so that I was actually equipped with a basic workable knowledge and a confidence, when working in my career, to find Law answers for myself. I resented being viewed as a machine with a mind that was an empty vessel simply to be filled up with dull, sterile, detailed, out of date information that had little relevance to my future work in my chosen career. I still had to pass test. The day before the test I and a similar minded maverick student spent the entire day swatting all the Law books on our reading list. We had a good supper, set the alarm for 3am and awoke to spent another 4 hours swatting - this time firing questions at each other. We ate a hearty breakfast then sat the 4 hour Law exam, with all that swatting fresh in our minds and in our memories. We both passed the test. What is the point of this little narrative? We are are not machines. We are stunningly unique individuals with an astonishing capacity to learn. When taught in ways that recognises this, we can dazzle are teachers and astound ourselves, with our extraordinary gifts and talents as people. Children are the future. They deserve our very best efforts to set the model, design the platform, for them to learn and then to go on and contribute to and gain from their future World.

explain Fisher v Bell then?

Condor Man wrote:

clausentum wrote:

Condor Man wrote:

clausentum wrote:

freemantlegirl2 wrote: What a brilliant post Donald, I totally agree you are spot on!

Ditto. Children have extraordinary, perhaps infinite, ability and talent to learn and a hunger to immerse themselves in a personal quest for discovery and knowledge. They are fascinated about themselves and the World in which they live. They do their " learning", informally, all the time every single day, by learning from and with their friends. In a formal setting, they learn best when their curiosity is sparked/challenged in demanding and creative ways that excite them in ways that recognise , acknowledge and respects their individuality as people. They are not machines. They should not be viewed or treated as machines. A production line, linear model, of teaching is going to produce grey, uniform, clones who are them put through the hoops of tests. What is the value of this, either to the student or to their community? sw = copy good

On the PM programme on Radio 4 they interviewed a teacher from a comp in Surrey over changing Science GCSE to BTEC. When asked if the BTEC was better he refused to answer. When they interviewed Michael Gove later he commented that the lack of rigour in modern education is putting our kids well behind our European rivals.

As an adult, I wanted a professional qualification to enter my chosen profession. One of the many subjects i had to learn was Law. One of the many test hoops I had to get over to gain my qualification was successfully completing a strenuous written test to establish I had learned all the Law taught to me. I saw no point in learning parrot-fashion all the Law put in front of me so opted out of the Law classes. This method of "teaching" replicated my experience of formal school education and seemed both pointless and offensive in the sense I was expected to fill my brain with a massive amount of Law that by definition was constantly becoming out of date. I concluded what I REALLY needed to learn, to equip myself in my career, was to understand the overal framework of the Law and how to ask questions of the Law and where to go to ask the questions so that I was actually equipped with a basic workable knowledge and a confidence, when working in my career, to find Law answers for myself. I resented being viewed as a machine with a mind that was an empty vessel simply to be filled up with dull, sterile, detailed, out of date information that had little relevance to my future work in my chosen career. I still had to pass test. The day before the test I and a similar minded maverick student spent the entire day swatting all the Law books on our reading list. We had a good supper, set the alarm for 3am and awoke to spent another 4 hours swatting - this time firing questions at each other. We ate a hearty breakfast then sat the 4 hour Law exam, with all that swatting fresh in our minds and in our memories. We both passed the test. What is the point of this little narrative? We are are not machines. We are stunningly unique individuals with an astonishing capacity to learn. When taught in ways that recognises this, we can dazzle are teachers and astound ourselves, with our extraordinary gifts and talents as people. Children are the future. They deserve our very best efforts to set the model, design the platform, for them to learn and then to go on and contribute to and gain from their future World.

explain Fisher v Bell then?

You set me a test.

Don't like tests ;-)

I have the answer but if you wish you can explain Fisher v Bell to me . . .

it's the invitation to treat rule.

I recall when living in the mods & rockers era, seeing lock-bladed flick knives on open display for sale in a Paddington shop window and knew that lock-bladed flick knives were illegal to own and ownersip of such a knife was a criminal offence.

At the time, this was a confusing ambiguity. I had no interest in buying or handling nor owning such an object but could not understand why an illegal item was openly offered for sale.

Some years later, I understood that every purchase transaction is triggered and completed by the action of the purchaser offering to make and to finalise the purchase and that the seller is under no legal obligation to sell anything to anyone.

So, the seller offering the illegal-to-own knife for sale was not doing anything illegal themselves by offering the weapon for sale.

The illegality only came into play the moment the purchaser purchased the knife and aquired ownership of it.

I don't know what they is talking about. I was skooled in Southampton and is perefktly well educated with a wicked job - innit.