Councillors to vote on asking health authority to have fluoride referendum (From This is Hampshire)

let see if this tory council and the sha will do the right thing and let the people of southampton decide weather to fluorate water or not and see if they will do what the majority says.

southy wrote:
let see if this tory council and the sha will do the right thing and let the people of southampton decide weather to fluorate water or not and see if they will do what the majority says.

But wouldn't that be democracy? That would never work!

RJCogburn wrote:

southy wrote:
let see if this tory council and the sha will do the right thing and let the people of southampton decide weather to fluorate water or not and see if they will do what the majority says.

But wouldn't that be democracy? That would never work!

lol very true, funny how the socialist (left wing) say they will give the people a vote on it, and the right wing have a quick change of heart.

More money being wasted and now it seems that the Council want to ask to SHA for a public vote.
>
Then its confirmed yet again......quote:-So
uthhampton City Council was previously the only local authority to support fluoride.........
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And then the final paragraph quote:- ...."But the health authority insists it will make no difference to the decision, which was made unanimously by its 12 board members last February"......
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In that case dont keep wasting my money on all this garbage if its not going to change it.
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I would also bet that if there was a referendum which was in favour of flouride the campaigners would still not accept the decision.

Typical socialist thinking: We know whats best for you do as your told or we will tax it to pay for our overspending!
I thought we fought a war to get rid of dictatorships

geoff51 wrote:
Typical socialist thinking: We know whats best for you do as your told or we will tax it to pay for our overspending!
I thought we fought a war to get rid of dictatorships

its not socialist thinking its capitalist thinking learn the difference, even dictatorships are more of a capitalist way, hitler, mussolini and franco where all capitalist dictatorships your miltary coup are capitist.
socialism is about the ordinary people having there say.

southy wrote:

geoff51 wrote:
Typical socialist thinking: We know whats best for you do as your told or we will tax it to pay for our overspending!
I thought we fought a war to get rid of dictatorships

its not socialist thinking its capitalist thinking learn the difference, even dictatorships are more of a capitalist way, hitler, mussolini and franco where all capitalist dictatorships your miltary coup are capitist.
socialism is about the ordinary people having there say.

That what you are fighting for to have your say.......but like i said...if the vote goes against the campaigners will they accept it. Thats called democracy. Will you accept it !!!!!!!
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If not then dont waste my money

southy wrote:

geoff51 wrote: Typical socialist thinking: We know whats best for you do as your told or we will tax it to pay for our overspending! I thought we fought a war to get rid of dictatorships

its not socialist thinking its capitalist thinking learn the difference, even dictatorships are more of a capitalist way, hitler, mussolini and franco where all capitalist dictatorships your miltary coup are capitist. socialism is about the ordinary people having there say.

You brought politics into this discussion not me, then you get upset when others do not agree with your socialist leanings.
As I said socialist dictatorship, not giving ordinary people their say

Lone Ranger wrote:

southy wrote:

geoff51 wrote:
Typical socialist thinking: We know whats best for you do as your told or we will tax it to pay for our overspending!
I thought we fought a war to get rid of dictatorships

its not socialist thinking its capitalist thinking learn the difference, even dictatorships are more of a capitalist way, hitler, mussolini and franco where all capitalist dictatorships your miltary coup are capitist.
socialism is about the ordinary people having there say.

That what you are fighting for to have your say.......but like i said...if the vote goes against the campaigners will they accept it. Thats called democracy. Will you accept it !!!!!!!
.
If not then dont waste my money

i will you know that i will go with what the majority wants. i am a socialist not a capitalist. and at the moment the majority dont want it.
weather if the hard core of the campaigners will or not is hard to say because they are a mix butch politics belivers

The issue being that you and your pal denham don't even want the vote at all. Just because there's a danger that it may not go your way. It's like the labour party's disgusting actions over the referendum on the Lisbon treaty all over again, only on a local level. You can't pick and choose democracy sonny.
I'm against flouride in our water supply but I would accept if the outcome of a referendum resulted in it going ahead. You're obviously pro flouride, as denham's little lap dog, why can't you accept that there is a possibility that a majority of people don't want this? And if that is indeed the case then proceeding with this course of action would be an afront to the democratic values of this country.

geoff51 wrote:

southy wrote:

geoff51 wrote: Typical socialist thinking: We know whats best for you do as your told or we will tax it to pay for our overspending! I thought we fought a war to get rid of dictatorships

its not socialist thinking its capitalist thinking learn the difference, even dictatorships are more of a capitalist way, hitler, mussolini and franco where all capitalist dictatorships your miltary coup are capitist. socialism is about the ordinary people having there say.

You brought politics into this discussion not me, then you get upset when others do not agree with your socialist leanings.
As I said socialist dictatorship, not giving ordinary people their say

i not get upset set with you just pointed out, that dictatorship is more of a capitalist thing than a socialist thing and i gave you some basic examples. socialism will give people there say its capitalism that will not till they feel threaten that they will lose control. like in this case the socialist have said they will give it to the people to choose weather to or not, and with the elections coming up they had a very quick change of heart

southy wrote:

geoff51 wrote: Typical socialist thinking: We know whats best for you do as your told or we will tax it to pay for our overspending! I thought we fought a war to get rid of dictatorships

its not socialist thinking its capitalist thinking learn the difference, even dictatorships are more of a capitalist way, hitler, mussolini and franco where all capitalist dictatorships your miltary coup are capitist. socialism is about the ordinary people having there say.

Loads of people had their say in Stalin's Russia - only they ended up freezing their balls off in Siberian labour camps as a result.

senseofsouthampton wrote:

southy wrote:

geoff51 wrote: Typical socialist thinking: We know whats best for you do as your told or we will tax it to pay for our overspending! I thought we fought a war to get rid of dictatorships

its not socialist thinking its capitalist thinking learn the difference, even dictatorships are more of a capitalist way, hitler, mussolini and franco where all capitalist dictatorships your miltary coup are capitist. socialism is about the ordinary people having there say.

Loads of people had their say in Stalin's Russia - only they ended up freezing their balls off in Siberian labour camps as a result.

And that's if they were the lucky ones that weren't shot.

Yeah, let the people of Southampton decide!

Because they'll research the issue properly and will have a full and thorough understanding of the various pieces of scientific evidence won't they!

They won't just vote in a knee-jerk reaction to a publicity campaign - no!

Redback wrote:
Yeah, let the people of Southampton decide! Because they'll research the issue properly and will have a full and thorough understanding of the various pieces of scientific evidence won't they! They won't just vote in a knee-jerk reaction to a publicity campaign - no!

Dont forget the people affected that dont even live in Southampton, hope they get a vote too.
You dont need to have any knowledge or understanding to know that you dont want mass medication, next thing it will be drugs to make us subservient and under control so we dont complain about anything.

geoff51 wrote:

Redback wrote:
Yeah, let the people of Southampton decide! Because they'll research the issue properly and will have a full and thorough understanding of the various pieces of scientific evidence won't they! They won't just vote in a knee-jerk reaction to a publicity campaign - no!

Dont forget the people affected that dont even live in Southampton, hope they get a vote too.
You dont need to have any knowledge or understanding to know that you dont want mass medication, next thing it will be drugs to make us subservient and under control so we dont complain about anything.

Wow looks we are all going to be drugged to death now then. Flouride first then followed by arsenic. Someone in Southampton should have the sense to tell the Councill and vote against the plan. Looks like we are all doomed sonnie's....all doomed....bring on the Referendum !!!!!!!

Beer Monster wrote:

senseofsouthampton wrote:

southy wrote:

geoff51 wrote: Typical socialist thinking: We know whats best for you do as your told or we will tax it to pay for our overspending! I thought we fought a war to get rid of dictatorships

its not socialist thinking its capitalist thinking learn the difference, even dictatorships are more of a capitalist way, hitler, mussolini and franco where all capitalist dictatorships your miltary coup are capitist. socialism is about the ordinary people having there say.

Loads of people had their say in Stalin's Russia - only they ended up freezing their balls off in Siberian labour camps as a result.

And that's if they were the lucky ones that weren't shot.

if you kept up with your history, stalin was a fascist and used the communist name to get to power, you go by there actions and not what they say, for an example jews that escape to russia stalin sent back to germany, the murder of socialist, union and communist, these are not the action of a communist or a socialist but the action of extreme capitalist a fascist.
there's a very good tv doc name the russian story you could learn by where it gives accounts what was happening in russia in stalin era. stalin had made russia a extreme capitalist country the worse kind and was no different than hitler germany.

geoff51 wrote:

Redback wrote:
Yeah, let the people of Southampton decide! Because they'll research the issue properly and will have a full and thorough understanding of the various pieces of scientific evidence won't they! They won't just vote in a knee-jerk reaction to a publicity campaign - no!

Dont forget the people affected that dont even live in Southampton, hope they get a vote too.
You dont need to have any knowledge or understanding to know that you dont want mass medication, next thing it will be drugs to make us subservient and under control so we dont complain about anything.

that would surely be down to the people in those council out side of southampton to put pressure on the council to have a vote on it to, but then again those council have said no to it all ready, plus they dont have any socialist or to few of a number to apply the pressure to make them think again.

southy wrote:

Beer Monster wrote:

senseofsouthampton wrote:

southy wrote:

geoff51 wrote: Typical socialist thinking: We know whats best for you do as your told or we will tax it to pay for our overspending! I thought we fought a war to get rid of dictatorships

its not socialist thinking its capitalist thinking learn the difference, even dictatorships are more of a capitalist way, hitler, mussolini and franco where all capitalist dictatorships your miltary coup are capitist. socialism is about the ordinary people having there say.

Loads of people had their say in Stalin's Russia - only they ended up freezing their balls off in Siberian labour camps as a result.

And that's if they were the lucky ones that weren't shot.

if you kept up with your history, stalin was a fascist and used the communist name to get to power, you go by there actions and not what they say, for an example jews that escape to russia stalin sent back to germany, the murder of socialist, union and communist, these are not the action of a communist or a socialist but the action of extreme capitalist a fascist. there's a very good tv doc name the russian story you could learn by where it gives accounts what was happening in russia in stalin era. stalin had made russia a extreme capitalist country the worse kind and was no different than hitler germany.

Name a socialist state that has ever allowed it's people to have their say then

Stalin a fascist? Now you are delusioned he almost singlehanded removed the hitler fascist war machine from Russia if he was a fascist he would have been in bed with Hitler not fighting him.
You have been reading Socialist Worker paper for too long your view is biased

geoff51 wrote:
Stalin a fascist? Now you are delusioned he almost singlehanded removed the hitler fascist war machine from Russia if he was a fascist he would have been in bed with Hitler not fighting him.
You have been reading Socialist Worker paper for too long your view is biased

You may recall he WAS "in bed" with Hitler in carving up Poland, etc - until Hitler turned against him.

IT was the PCT who were pushing this awful scheme through. All through the consultation process Denham and Whitehead remained silent. It's them and their socialist cronies on the PCT that have caused this mess.

Most of the world caught on to this fluoridation hoax years ago. Rejecting it has been Japan, China, India, and even Europe is now 98% fluoride-free. Only 5% of the world uses it now.
Even if politicians keeps their heads in dark places, people have wised up. For example in a U.S. state, Nebraska, the legislature tried to mandate fluoridation on all cities. In November 2008 community elections were held and 88% of the people voted to reject it. This is typically what happens in these elections now, so I believe your communitey will also reject this poisonous drug in your drinking water.
Isn't it strange, doctors cannot force one person to take a drug, yet the government wants to force everyone to be drugged with fluoride, a prescription drug, against their will and with no medical supervision.
Fluoridation not only causes cancer, brittle bones, etc., but is an absolute waste of tax money.
For example, for every $1000 of fluoride chemical added to water, $995 would be directly wasted down the drain in toilets, showers, etc., $5 would be consumed in water by the people, and less than $1.00 would be consumed by children. Can you think of a more wasteful government program?
A plan to give away fluoride tablets free to whoever wants them would be much, much cheaper. Then the rest of us would not be drugged against our will and the environment would be protected.

Okay, let's get this straight.

Read the research properly and you'll find flouridation has no harmful effects.

Neither does it have any benefits.

It's just a stupid waste of money, not a conspiracy.

freefinker wrote:

geoff51 wrote:
Stalin a fascist? Now you are delusioned he almost singlehanded removed the hitler fascist war machine from Russia if he was a fascist he would have been in bed with Hitler not fighting him.
You have been reading Socialist Worker paper for too long your view is biased

You may recall he WAS "in bed" with Hitler in carving up Poland, etc - until Hitler turned against him.

and not just poland, finland to, geoff just has very poor knowledge of history and the little he knows he has not kept up to date with the new information.
there was a real threat that russia would join the axis powers in 39 and 40. but with hitler being a capitalist his greed got the better of him.

Redback wrote:
Okay, let's get this straight.

Read the research properly and you'll find flouridation has no harmful effects.

Neither does it have any benefits.

It's just a stupid waste of money, not a conspiracy.

dont that depend on what you read, some are saying it do harmful effects others are saying it dont and its the same with benefits.

Redback wrote:
Okay, let's get this straight.

Read the research properly and you'll find flouridation has no harmful effects.

Neither does it have any benefits.

It's just a stupid waste of money, not a conspiracy.

Actually it has both beneficial and harmful effects. It is balancing these contrasting values that should be the nature of the debate and decision taking.
Having looked at both sides I have come down against fluoridation as I believe the harm outweighs the benefits.
The SHA, it seems to me, have only looked at the benefits to dental health and not the adverse affects elsewhere in the body. They see fluoridation as a quick and easy fix when what is actually needed is better education in dental hygiene.
It is sugary products and our inability to teach children how to clean their teeth properly that are the causes of tooth decay.

freefinker wrote:

Redback wrote:
Okay, let's get this straight.

Read the research properly and you'll find flouridation has no harmful effects.

Neither does it have any benefits.

It's just a stupid waste of money, not a conspiracy.

Actually it has both beneficial and harmful effects. It is balancing these contrasting values that should be the nature of the debate and decision taking.
Having looked at both sides I have come down against fluoridation as I believe the harm outweighs the benefits.
The SHA, it seems to me, have only looked at the benefits to dental health and not the adverse affects elsewhere in the body. They see fluoridation as a quick and easy fix when what is actually needed is better education in dental hygiene.
It is sugary products and our inability to teach children how to clean their teeth properly that are the causes of tooth decay.

i come down on against fluorating the water, but with different view, because on a box of tooth paste it use to give an health warning not to be swallowed and to be spit out, mouth washes say rinse and spit out, when you go to the dentist that pink mouth wash they give you is a fluoride mouth wash and again you spit it out.

Potato and maize starch is also a huge problem for teeth, ie the stuff cheap Crisp type snacks are made from like wotsits and quavers!
All are carbohydrates and the ones that stick better cause the most damage. Nothing like a mouthful of claggy wotsits jammed amongst the baby teeth.
I should imagine all blame was placed on sugar due to the Artificial sweetner push. But as there is already varying levels of fluoride (peeking above the so called dose) in pop, the kids that drink it should have fab teeth!

I dont want fluoride in the water as I believe that fluoride is not good for the bodily system and also no proof that it actually reduces decay.

And for those of you who want it, go get some, have a swig of mouthwash, swallow your tooth paste (as most little ones do until they learn to spit properly)

In the US they are planning to add LITHIUM to the water because it reduces suicide....so how willing are all of you to have anti-depressants in your water for the 20% of the uk population who are depressed?

The World Health Organisation DOES NOT support water fluoridation as being the cause for the fall in dental caries!

southy wrote:

Redback wrote:
Okay, let's get this straight.

Read the research properly and you'll find flouridation has no harmful effects.

Neither does it have any benefits.

It's just a stupid waste of money, not a conspiracy.

dont that depend on what you read, some are saying it do harmful effects others are saying it dont and its the same with benefits.

No southy it doesn't. There's a big difference between opinion pieces and empirical research. You of all people I would have expected to understand this.

Redback wrote:

southy wrote:

Redback wrote:
Okay, let's get this straight.

Read the research properly and you'll find flouridation has no harmful effects.

Neither does it have any benefits.

It's just a stupid waste of money, not a conspiracy.

dont that depend on what you read, some are saying it do harmful effects others are saying it dont and its the same with benefits.

No southy it doesn't. There's a big difference between opinion pieces and empirical research. You of all people I would have expected to understand this.

i do under stand it red, and like i said there some that are all for it and others against it, in the medical profession, and the information on is mix and match too, have a chat with the dentist guy down in devonshire road, he against it and he will tell you why.