Sunday worship with a modern twist (From This is Hampshire)

There is a reason behind shrinking congregations over the past couple of decades and cute attempts at PR to coax new church members is not going to work.

Why?

Increasingly, people see traditional/formal Religion as not relevant to their lives, nor does it satisfy their spiritual needs.

They have voted with their feet to seek modern answers to their spiritual needs that are not based on crude mumbo jumbo and outdated rituals.

This has to be a healthy trend and portends smarter and more compassionate citizens.

Hallelujah!

people are only going for the music. wonder how many still be there in a few weeks time. church up the road tired this a few years back and done very well out of it for about 2 mths then people stop going.

clausentum wrote:
There is a reason behind shrinking congregations over the past couple of decades and cute attempts at PR to coax new church members is not going to work. Why? Increasingly, people see traditional/formal Religion as not relevant to their lives, nor does it satisfy their spiritual needs. They have voted with their feet to seek modern answers to their spiritual needs that are not based on crude mumbo jumbo and outdated rituals. This has to be a healthy trend and portends smarter and more compassionate citizens. Hallelujah!

Yeah, I really see a lot of compassionate people out there. If the message of Christ has sustained for 2000 years and is flourishing all over the world why shouldn't it work in Bishops Waltham? What healthy alternatives are out there? What meets your spiritual needs?

We are told that we are all children of God, so what makes Jesus so special?. Joke aside well done to the people who came up with the idea. Now whilst you have them you had better come up with a way of keeping them. Perhaps trying to explain the teachings in the Bible "stories" rather than trying to teach the stories could be a step forward. What is the point of teaching to people, especialy children "observe the lillys, they do not toil" or some thing like that (its a long time since I had it read to me). Perhaps it could be explaned that the teaching is be in the present moment, its the only moment you ever have. People trying to live (worry) in the future is a big contributer to the high rate of suicides.

v_dubman2005 wrote:
We are told that we are all children of God, so what makes Jesus so special?. Joke aside well done to the people who came up with the idea. Now whilst you have them you had better come up with a way of keeping them. Perhaps trying to explain the teachings in the Bible "stories" rather than trying to teach the stories could be a step forward. What is the point of teaching to people, especialy children "observe the lillys, they do not toil" or some thing like that (its a long time since I had it read to me). Perhaps it could be explaned that the teaching is be in the present moment, its the only moment you ever have. People trying to live (worry) in the future is a big contributer to the high rate of suicides.

a lot of the stories in the bible old testament belong to the pagans and was being told 1000's of years before there was any mono god, let alone when the bible was first writen, but the mono god belivers took those old pagan stories and used them for there benefit,
and if you read the stories about christ he preaching socialism. i dont see many church goers practicing what christ was preaching

v_dubman2005 wrote:
We are told that we are all children of God, so what makes Jesus so special?. Joke aside well done to the people who came up with the idea. Now whilst you have them you had better come up with a way of keeping them. Perhaps trying to explain the teachings in the Bible "stories" rather than trying to teach the stories could be a step forward. What is the point of teaching to people, especialy children "observe the lillys, they do not toil" or some thing like that (its a long time since I had it read to me). Perhaps it could be explaned that the teaching is be in the present moment, its the only moment you ever have. People trying to live (worry) in the future is a big contributer to the high rate of suicides.

the biggest cause of suicide is depression. If you taught now that it was better to live a life focussed on putting others before yourself, being generous with your time and money, honouring your family, not committing crime or adultary you would be instilling good values.

Condor Man wrote:

clausentum wrote:
There is a reason behind shrinking congregations over the past couple of decades and cute attempts at PR to coax new church members is not going to work. Why? Increasingly, people see traditional/formal Religion as not relevant to their lives, nor does it satisfy their spiritual needs. They have voted with their feet to seek modern answers to their spiritual needs that are not based on crude mumbo jumbo and outdated rituals. This has to be a healthy trend and portends smarter and more compassionate citizens. Hallelujah!

Yeah, I really see a lot of compassionate people out there. If the message of Christ has sustained for 2000 years and is flourishing all over the world why shouldn't it work in Bishops Waltham? What healthy alternatives are out there? What meets your spiritual needs?

For 1900 of those 2000 years Religion used power to control the masses with threat of eternal damnation for non-compliance. It also made sure it became the richest organisation in history.

During that time, Religion was responsible for most of the Wars on this planet. The rot got stemmed by the Education Act of the middle of the last century. Education allowed people to think for themselves. When they did, they jettisoned Religion by the bucketful.

In the modern era we had a former PM entering into an unholy alliance with his USA counterpart to rid the World of a dictator to eradicate evil. The same duo did sod all about the rest of the World's dictators or madmen. Why? They were on a religious Crusade.

In the modern era the Catholic church indulged in institutionalised rape and torment of countless children and young people on a disgusting scale and covered it up.

In the modern era the religious zealots who hijacked Islam are hell-bent on their own Crusade and World domination by fostering home-grown warriors to fight from within.

Most of the serial killers in the USA are religious nuts.

Christians, in particular, exhibit a sanctimonious smugness because they believe they have the answers to all in Life. They haven't. What they have is bigotry and a false sense of compassion which in truth is an attitude of being judgmental- they see everyone either as deserving or non-deserving, depending on wether those they deem need their help, want to be helped.

Much of human activity is geared towards the pursuit of pleasure or the denial of mortality. Religion knows this all too well and offers a dishonest comfy security blanket.

"What meets my spiritual needs?"

That is not your business. It is between me and whatever Life Force gave me Life and I do not need a bundle of some-elses answers to Life to live mine.

Condor Man wrote:

v_dubman2005 wrote:
We are told that we are all children of God, so what makes Jesus so special?. Joke aside well done to the people who came up with the idea. Now whilst you have them you had better come up with a way of keeping them. Perhaps trying to explain the teachings in the Bible "stories" rather than trying to teach the stories could be a step forward. What is the point of teaching to people, especialy children "observe the lillys, they do not toil" or some thing like that (its a long time since I had it read to me). Perhaps it could be explaned that the teaching is be in the present moment, its the only moment you ever have. People trying to live (worry) in the future is a big contributer to the high rate of suicides.

the biggest cause of suicide is depression. If you taught now that it was better to live a life focussed on putting others before yourself, being generous with your time and money, honouring your family, not committing crime or adultary you would be instilling good values.

And depression can easily be due to worrying about the future. You are here/now but your mind is “practicing” the future. Body here-mind there. No wonder people act so irresponsibly at times when their not even thinking about what they are doing. In many religions/belief systems living fully conscious of your surroundings and your feelings, thinking and behavior is called mindfulness. If you are mindful it is impossible to act in a mindless fashion.

v_dubman2005 wrote:

Condor Man wrote:

v_dubman2005 wrote:
We are told that we are all children of God, so what makes Jesus so special?. Joke aside well done to the people who came up with the idea. Now whilst you have them you had better come up with a way of keeping them. Perhaps trying to explain the teachings in the Bible "stories" rather than trying to teach the stories could be a step forward. What is the point of teaching to people, especialy children "observe the lillys, they do not toil" or some thing like that (its a long time since I had it read to me). Perhaps it could be explaned that the teaching is be in the present moment, its the only moment you ever have. People trying to live (worry) in the future is a big contributer to the high rate of suicides.

the biggest cause of suicide is depression. If you taught now that it was better to live a life focussed on putting others before yourself, being generous with your time and money, honouring your family, not committing crime or adultary you would be instilling good values.

And depression can easily be due to worrying about the future. You are here/now but your mind is “practicing” the future. Body here-mind there. No wonder people act so irresponsibly at times when their not even thinking about what they are doing. In many religions/belief systems living fully conscious of your surroundings and your feelings, thinking and behavior is called mindfulness. If you are mindful it is impossible to act in a mindless fashion.

You express wisdom.

The Ego is a ravenous, self-indulgent, selfish, dangerous thing.

The Mind, when allowed to flourish through calm inactivity, can produce rainbows and paradigm shifts of colossal generosity.

Condor Man wrote:

clausentum wrote:
There is a reason behind shrinking congregations over the past couple of decades and cute attempts at PR to coax new church members is not going to work. Why? Increasingly, people see traditional/formal Religion as not relevant to their lives, nor does it satisfy their spiritual needs. They have voted with their feet to seek modern answers to their spiritual needs that are not based on crude mumbo jumbo and outdated rituals. This has to be a healthy trend and portends smarter and more compassionate citizens. Hallelujah!

Yeah, I really see a lot of compassionate people out there. If the message of Christ has sustained for 2000 years and is flourishing all over the world why shouldn't it work in Bishops Waltham? What healthy alternatives are out there? What meets your spiritual needs?

"Yeah, I really see a lot of compassionate people out there."

Or, put another way?

"Yeah, I really see a lot of misguided people out there who have fallen by the wayside and who don't agree with me or my beliefs or my values."?

sw = they-many

The sw-maker is trying to say something about their own belief system!!!

My cat went missing last Tuesday evening, but came back on Saturday morning.

Just as irrelevant as the story.

WHY IS THIS IN THE NEWS AT ALL?

warness wrote:
My cat went missing last Tuesday evening, but came back on Saturday morning.

Just as irrelevant as the story.

WHY IS THIS IN THE NEWS AT ALL?

Actually, I find your cat's adventure much more relevant to the real world than this story.

freefinker wrote:

warness wrote:
My cat went missing last Tuesday evening, but came back on Saturday morning.

Just as irrelevant as the story.

WHY IS THIS IN THE NEWS AT ALL?

Actually, I find your cat's adventure much more relevant to the real world than this story.

Yes. You would.

southy wrote:

v_dubman2005 wrote: We are told that we are all children of God, so what makes Jesus so special?. Joke aside well done to the people who came up with the idea. Now whilst you have them you had better come up with a way of keeping them. Perhaps trying to explain the teachings in the Bible "stories" rather than trying to teach the stories could be a step forward. What is the point of teaching to people, especialy children "observe the lillys, they do not toil" or some thing like that (its a long time since I had it read to me). Perhaps it could be explaned that the teaching is be in the present moment, its the only moment you ever have. People trying to live (worry) in the future is a big contributer to the high rate of suicides.

a lot of the stories in the bible old testament belong to the pagans and was being told 1000's of years before there was any mono god, let alone when the bible was first writen, but the mono god belivers took those old pagan stories and used them for there benefit, and if you read the stories about christ he preaching socialism. i dont see many church goers practicing what christ was preaching

Jesus said that we are all equal in the eyes of god, he never said that there should be a socialist system. Living in Roman times he knew that there would always been systems of government that oppressed people- whether directly like communism or more subtly like capitalism. He said that people should obey the laws of the places they found themselves in.

As for pagans, the bible was written 4000 years ago in what's now Israel by Jews. 2000 years on it was Jews again that wrote the New Testiment. a few hundred years ago you'd have been tried for heresy making such unfounded comments.

Condor Man wrote:

southy wrote:

v_dubman2005 wrote: We are told that we are all children of God, so what makes Jesus so special?. Joke aside well done to the people who came up with the idea. Now whilst you have them you had better come up with a way of keeping them. Perhaps trying to explain the teachings in the Bible "stories" rather than trying to teach the stories could be a step forward. What is the point of teaching to people, especialy children "observe the lillys, they do not toil" or some thing like that (its a long time since I had it read to me). Perhaps it could be explaned that the teaching is be in the present moment, its the only moment you ever have. People trying to live (worry) in the future is a big contributer to the high rate of suicides.

a lot of the stories in the bible old testament belong to the pagans and was being told 1000's of years before there was any mono god, let alone when the bible was first writen, but the mono god belivers took those old pagan stories and used them for there benefit, and if you read the stories about christ he preaching socialism. i dont see many church goers practicing what christ was preaching

Jesus said that we are all equal in the eyes of god, he never said that there should be a socialist system. Living in Roman times he knew that there would always been systems of government that oppressed people- whether directly like communism or more subtly like capitalism. He said that people should obey the laws of the places they found themselves in.

As for pagans, the bible was written 4000 years ago in what's now Israel by Jews. 2000 years on it was Jews again that wrote the New Testiment. a few hundred years ago you'd have been tried for heresy making such unfounded comments.

" . . . a few hundred years ago you'd have been tried for heresy making such unfounded comments."

A few hundred years from now your fanatical adherence to a mythical figure and stoic reliance on an unreliable book of symbols fantasy and fairy stories, on which to base your presumptions about people, will be viewed as quaint, unfounded nonsense, in the same vein as voodoo and witch-doctoring.

freefinker wrote:

warness wrote:
My cat went missing last Tuesday evening, but came back on Saturday morning.

Just as irrelevant as the story.

WHY IS THIS IN THE NEWS AT ALL?

Actually, I find your cat's adventure much more relevant to the real world than this story.

So do I.

If he could talk, his four-day adventure of going missing and what he/she got up to, could make riveting reading. And maybe the stuff of a future highly successful 3D film, or winning Booker Prize material?

My cat leads a fulfilling fascinating Life and he doesn't need to lean on the philosophical, theological crutch of an unbelievable fairy story to understand his place on this Earth, or where he is going in his life.

Condor Man wrote:

southy wrote:

v_dubman2005 wrote: We are told that we are all children of God, so what makes Jesus so special?. Joke aside well done to the people who came up with the idea. Now whilst you have them you had better come up with a way of keeping them. Perhaps trying to explain the teachings in the Bible "stories" rather than trying to teach the stories could be a step forward. What is the point of teaching to people, especialy children "observe the lillys, they do not toil" or some thing like that (its a long time since I had it read to me). Perhaps it could be explaned that the teaching is be in the present moment, its the only moment you ever have. People trying to live (worry) in the future is a big contributer to the high rate of suicides.

a lot of the stories in the bible old testament belong to the pagans and was being told 1000's of years before there was any mono god, let alone when the bible was first writen, but the mono god belivers took those old pagan stories and used them for there benefit, and if you read the stories about christ he preaching socialism. i dont see many church goers practicing what christ was preaching

Jesus said that we are all equal in the eyes of god, he never said that there should be a socialist system. Living in Roman times he knew that there would always been systems of government that oppressed people- whether directly like communism or more subtly like capitalism. He said that people should obey the laws of the places they found themselves in.

As for pagans, the bible was written 4000 years ago in what's now Israel by Jews. 2000 years on it was Jews again that wrote the New Testiment. a few hundred years ago you'd have been tried for heresy making such unfounded comments.

all are equal is a socialist view of life.
the bible was not writen 4000 years ago it would not even writen 2000 years, the mono god system happen in the roman times whitch the beging of the roman empire you could only date back 146bc at the earlest the torah it self can only date back 350bc at the most but even that the 5 books of the torah talks about a person that lived earlyer, and the man who might of first planted the seeds of a mono god, so come on condor you can do better than that

ok, so what about Abraham? was that all made up? The Isaac/Ishmael split is the basis of what Christians, Jews and Muslims believe. Are 4 billion people wrong? Obviously according to your thinking YES.

southy wrote:

Condor Man wrote:

southy wrote:

v_dubman2005 wrote: We are told that we are all children of God, so what makes Jesus so special?. Joke aside well done to the people who came up with the idea. Now whilst you have them you had better come up with a way of keeping them. Perhaps trying to explain the teachings in the Bible "stories" rather than trying to teach the stories could be a step forward. What is the point of teaching to people, especialy children "observe the lillys, they do not toil" or some thing like that (its a long time since I had it read to me). Perhaps it could be explaned that the teaching is be in the present moment, its the only moment you ever have. People trying to live (worry) in the future is a big contributer to the high rate of suicides.

a lot of the stories in the bible old testament belong to the pagans and was being told 1000's of years before there was any mono god, let alone when the bible was first writen, but the mono god belivers took those old pagan stories and used them for there benefit, and if you read the stories about christ he preaching socialism. i dont see many church goers practicing what christ was preaching

Jesus said that we are all equal in the eyes of god, he never said that there should be a socialist system. Living in Roman times he knew that there would always been systems of government that oppressed people- whether directly like communism or more subtly like capitalism. He said that people should obey the laws of the places they found themselves in.

As for pagans, the bible was written 4000 years ago in what's now Israel by Jews. 2000 years on it was Jews again that wrote the New Testiment. a few hundred years ago you'd have been tried for heresy making such unfounded comments.

all are equal is a socialist view of life.
the bible was not writen 4000 years ago it would not even writen 2000 years, the mono god system happen in the roman times whitch the beging of the roman empire you could only date back 146bc at the earlest the torah it self can only date back 350bc at the most but even that the 5 books of the torah talks about a person that lived earlyer, and the man who might of first planted the seeds of a mono god, so come on condor you can do better than that

Neither does he have an answer to the systemic horrific abuse by catholic priests that was condoned by the Irish church leaders who recently got hauled before the Pope and had their feet put to the fire about it.

The list of misuse, abuse of power by the Church over centuries, is endless and indefensible.

Anyone who says they have Life's answers in a portable ready-made book format are dangerous, because they have given up on answering the important questions in Life and settled for someone-elses' answers.

How dumb is that??

Condor Man wrote:
ok, so what about Abraham? was that all made up? The Isaac/Ishmael split is the basis of what Christians, Jews and Muslims believe. Are 4 billion people wrong? Obviously according to your thinking YES.

the biggest group in the world are atheist christians would might make 1 billion, but that would be hard put by to reach that number even if you include all the mono god religion has one group.
the first group ever to walk the earth was atheist and the second was your pagans. and like i said most storys in the old testament belong to the pagans and there storys got altered to suit the needs to mono religion, and if you studie your history right and kept up to date with it then you would know that syria was the first place where you would of found a mono religion but it was short live because of the romans, egypt narrowed down of all its gods down to two, and it was from here it moved into israel then moved into rome, before the roman empire, the greek empire ruled all over this land, and they was all pagans, alexander the great who was a macedonian (part of the federal greek empire). who rain was 336 bc to 323 bc, and there was no mono god religion in his era, it was all pagan, if there was it would of been written about at the time.

clausentum wrote:

freefinker wrote:

warness wrote:
My cat went missing last Tuesday evening, but came back on Saturday morning.

Just as irrelevant as the story.

WHY IS THIS IN THE NEWS AT ALL?

Actually, I find your cat's adventure much more relevant to the real world than this story.

So do I.

If he could talk, his four-day adventure of going missing and what he/she got up to, could make riveting reading. And maybe the stuff of a future highly successful 3D film, or winning Booker Prize material?

My cat leads a fulfilling fascinating Life and he doesn't need to lean on the philosophical, theological crutch of an unbelievable fairy story to understand his place on this Earth, or where he is going in his life.

Thats because your cat IS living in the moment. lol.

southy wrote:

Condor Man wrote:
ok, so what about Abraham? was that all made up? The Isaac/Ishmael split is the basis of what Christians, Jews and Muslims believe. Are 4 billion people wrong? Obviously according to your thinking YES.

the biggest group in the world are atheist christians would might make 1 billion, but that would be hard put by to reach that number even if you include all the mono god religion has one group.
the first group ever to walk the earth was atheist and the second was your pagans. and like i said most storys in the old testament belong to the pagans and there storys got altered to suit the needs to mono religion, and if you studie your history right and kept up to date with it then you would know that syria was the first place where you would of found a mono religion but it was short live because of the romans, egypt narrowed down of all its gods down to two, and it was from here it moved into israel then moved into rome, before the roman empire, the greek empire ruled all over this land, and they was all pagans, alexander the great who was a macedonian (part of the federal greek empire). who rain was 336 bc to 323 bc, and there was no mono god religion in his era, it was all pagan, if there was it would of been written about at the time.

I wonder what Shakyamuni Buddha would make of it all. In other words lets get this off the "my god is right and if you dont agree i'll kill you" path.

v_dubman2005 wrote:

southy wrote:

Condor Man wrote:
ok, so what about Abraham? was that all made up? The Isaac/Ishmael split is the basis of what Christians, Jews and Muslims believe. Are 4 billion people wrong? Obviously according to your thinking YES.

the biggest group in the world are atheist christians would might make 1 billion, but that would be hard put by to reach that number even if you include all the mono god religion has one group.
the first group ever to walk the earth was atheist and the second was your pagans. and like i said most storys in the old testament belong to the pagans and there storys got altered to suit the needs to mono religion, and if you studie your history right and kept up to date with it then you would know that syria was the first place where you would of found a mono religion but it was short live because of the romans, egypt narrowed down of all its gods down to two, and it was from here it moved into israel then moved into rome, before the roman empire, the greek empire ruled all over this land, and they was all pagans, alexander the great who was a macedonian (part of the federal greek empire). who rain was 336 bc to 323 bc, and there was no mono god religion in his era, it was all pagan, if there was it would of been written about at the time.

I wonder what Shakyamuni Buddha would make of it all. In other words lets get this off the "my god is right and if you dont agree i'll kill you" path.

i was wondering where the 4 billion christains came from. when you look at there is just under 7 billion people in the world whitch just over 1 billion is buddist and about 1 billion are hindus and the biggest group is atheists then there about 1 to 2 billion of other religions of a mix type of multi gods, that only leaves around the 1 billion left to be mono gods belivers

You could start a club for them......ahhh some one got the jump on you.