Hampshire campaigners urging repeal of law pounce on comments by former PM (From This is Hampshire)

Well we all know why fox hunting has to be brought back in view of the 'attacks' by foxes that have been happening lately. Imagine huntsmen on their horses with hounds gallavanting through the suburbs - tally ho. Seriously though it's not natural and Mr B needs to be gagged with all the tripe he's coming out with. Has he run out of money?

the nub of the book is that Gordon Brown was rubbish- something well all know to our costs. Had Blair had his way he'd have appointed Ken Clarke as Chancellor (has he said he had great respect for him).

So if dog-fighting or **** fighting is part of people's "way of life" we should let that happen as well, should we? Unbelievable! It's about time the hunts turned to something like simple treasure hunting around the countryside using their horses and, if they have to, their hounds, or found another way to spend their leisure hours. I'd like to hear organisations like the RSPCA speaking up - fox hunting is barbaric and the ban needs to stay. Foxes can be culled if necessary by being humanely killed.

Blair was right to permit the banning the barbaric hunting of foxes with dogs. Pity he didn't have the same sense about launching us it an unjustified war in Iraq.

Dress him up as a fox, make him run and when he has been ripped to bits that would be the end of the c**p coming out of his mouth, good riddance. Fox hunting IS a thing of the past and should remain in our history books as a reminder of how cruel his kind are.

why have the previous comments been removed from here or is this an Echo glitch?

OntheBoundary wrote:
Blair was right to permit the banning the barbaric hunting of foxes with dogs. Pity he didn't have the same sense about launching us it an unjustified war in Iraq.

I believe Blair thought he was doing the right thing is ousting Saddam. His mistake was not thinking through the outcome rather than the war itself.

The ban of fox-hunting had little to do with the cruelty of the way the fox died- the ban was introduced as a way of the Labour government to attack one of the core regions of conservative voters- the upper and upper middle classes.

Tottonion wrote:
Dress him up as a fox, make him run and when he has been ripped to bits that would be the end of the c**p coming out of his mouth, good riddance. Fox hunting IS a thing of the past and should remain in our history books as a reminder of how cruel his kind are.

I'll drink to that, Tottonian, completely and utterly. He's despised, as is his gaudy publicity hungry wife. It is barbaric and if foxes need culling, then a well aimed bullet would do the job. Why allow them to suffer. If this is all about controlling numbers then it has to be the bullet because the other method is draconian, as are most hooray henry's of the day - time's moved on and these people should learn how to too.

FIGHT THE PREDUDICE, FIGHT THE BAN!

People on here glibly talk about culling foxes with well aimed bullets. Have people proposing this actually stopped and thought about this rubbish? Marksmen can cull deer because deer are vegetarian browsers, that stand still to feed enabling the marksman to plan and line a shot. Foxes are not the same thing - as carnivores they wander continuously because their prey source is also mobile. It's typical urban based, ill thought, innacurate nonsense . You seriously think that marksmen with high velocity rifles are going to stake out a coop for days on end and are then a) allowed and b) able to cull foxes just like that? Do you think a farmer with a family is going to risk HV rifle bullets with a range of a kilometre around his farm at any time day or night? Have you thought that a) how many days does a highly trained marksman have to sit in one place motionless on the off chance that he will get half a second of clear shot b) even that most shots will result in wounds not death and the animal will endure days of agonising slow death - worse even than being hunted or c) animals that live in the wild almost always have what we would regard as a cruel and painful death anyway. All the foxes not culled or hunted are not going to frolic around happily until they lie down to sleep like in some Bambi film - the worst thing that came out of the whole hunting argument was that stupid naiive urban sensitivities and innacurate class hatred were allowed to triumph over common sense, factual accuracy and reason. Why is there not the same dumb sentiment about killing rats, mice or pigeons? Is it because their tails aren't so pretty?

Condor Man wrote:
the nub of the book is that Gordon Brown was rubbish- something well all know to our costs. Had Blair had his way he'd have appointed Ken Clarke as Chancellor (has he said he had great respect for him).

well it just go's to show that labour is controlled now by the capitalist. and has joint all the other right wing partys, so things can only get worse. thats why maggie has respect for blair and brown, and why they have respect for clark.

The Wickham Man wrote:
People on here glibly talk about culling foxes with well aimed bullets. Have people proposing this actually stopped and thought about this rubbish? Marksmen can cull deer because deer are vegetarian browsers, that stand still to feed enabling the marksman to plan and line a shot. Foxes are not the same thing - as carnivores they wander continuously because their prey source is also mobile. It's typical urban based, ill thought, innacurate nonsense . You seriously think that marksmen with high velocity rifles are going to stake out a coop for days on end and are then a) allowed and b) able to cull foxes just like that? Do you think a farmer with a family is going to risk HV rifle bullets with a range of a kilometre around his farm at any time day or night? Have you thought that a) how many days does a highly trained marksman have to sit in one place motionless on the off chance that he will get half a second of clear shot b) even that most shots will result in wounds not death and the animal will endure days of agonising slow death - worse even than being hunted or c) animals that live in the wild almost always have what we would regard as a cruel and painful death anyway. All the foxes not culled or hunted are not going to frolic around happily until they lie down to sleep like in some Bambi film - the worst thing that came out of the whole hunting argument was that stupid naiive urban sensitivities and innacurate class hatred were allowed to triumph over common sense, factual accuracy and reason. Why is there not the same dumb sentiment about killing rats, mice or pigeons? Is it because their tails aren't so pretty?

I love hunting with horses, but not for foxes! It is cruel to allow one type of dog to kill another in the name of pest control. If that was the true feeling behind it then people would be allowed to fight staffies against each other also in the name of "pest" control. And lets not forget, their are points and winners involved in this "pest control" so most certainly puts it down to a game instead of a task.

The Wickham Man, Fareham, I belive your comment is ridulous. I shall tell you why.

My father is a farmer, his entire family are farmers. My friends are farmers and their families and friends are also...farmers. I have done a far bit of farming myself too.

None of us go out in the hope of randomly finding a fox pest (not all foxes are pests). Any fox to be shot, is already being a pest. It has a set of "runs" and usually a round about time it turns up. Thats the point of its being a pest and thats what makes them "shootable"

There are plenty of foxes on the moors here, and we leave the dead lambs for them and the badgers to take in a kind of symbiosis. By the time this food source has run out for them, the living lambs are too big to prey on (although its mainly badgers who get the lambs)
If they came into the hen areas and caused a problem, they would be shot. A simple task from a window/barn roof etc. There is no need to tear them to bits while they are still alive like the dog meat trade of china which most rightly were so disgusted by.
The ones that have been accused of being pests and attacking babies, may well be pests. Its not a hard job for a trapper to catch them and kill them quickly but I fail to see how a team of horsebacked men and hounds are going to stop a one in a million fox attack in a built up area such as Hackney.

Huffybear wrote:

Tottonion wrote: Dress him up as a fox, make him run and when he has been ripped to bits that would be the end of the c**p coming out of his mouth, good riddance. Fox hunting IS a thing of the past and should remain in our history books as a reminder of how cruel his kind are.

I'll drink to that, Tottonian, completely and utterly. He's despised, as is his gaudy publicity hungry wife. It is barbaric and if foxes need culling, then a well aimed bullet would do the job. Why allow them to suffer. If this is all about controlling numbers then it has to be the bullet because the other method is draconian, as are most hooray henry's of the day - time's moved on and these people should learn how to too.

Ohh, Huffybear you rock my boat, say it again, mufassa, you took the words right out of my mouth, you big huffybear you...

southy wrote:

Condor Man wrote: the nub of the book is that Gordon Brown was rubbish- something well all know to our costs. Had Blair had his way he'd have appointed Ken Clarke as Chancellor (has he said he had great respect for him).

well it just go's to show that labour is controlled now by the capitalist. and has joint all the other right wing partys, so things can only get worse. thats why maggie has respect for blair and brown, and why they have respect for clark.

They respected Clarke because they used his spending formula to grow the economy. As soon as Brown deviated from Clarke's plan borrowing rocketed and lead to the deepest recession of all time. As for Foxes, they are pests and should be controlled like rats are.

NITN - Saying my comment is ridiculous without offering up constructive evidence why is not only ridiculous but a waste of time. You may lilke the idea of blasting blindly into the night with a shotgun but you won't ever do it a second time - chances on killing the fox are about zero, chances on wounding it higher, chances on killing your own foul higher still and the risk of actually shooting an intruder and being charged with attempted murder are high enough to suggest you don;t do it at all. Remember Tony Martin? I'm not sure that what you call farming actually qualifies because you don't seem to have a farming brain. The bit about hunts riding around built up areas came from your own imagination - nobody else suggested it. Anyway perhaps you'd care to estimate the cost of hiring a marksman for several days and the probability of hitting and killing the fox with one shot. Personally I'd suggest Larsen traps and not the hunt if we have to find an alternative, but then you've got to get into pretty close contact with the animal in order to dispose of it - easier said than done. And foxes are smart - they very quickly learn to avoid the traps - you can try rigging a dummy coop which will set you back £200 but you still have to bait it with live foul. No wonder the hunt is still accepted as the easiest way to get rid of rural vermin. Town people feed foxes anyway directly or indirectly so they have both the cause and solution to the problem in their own hands.

Its sad really a man like blair does not even understand terrorising and tearing a defenceless small animal to death for traditional fun is just plain sadistic barbarism and should remain banned

It is time we stopped the fluffywuffy thinking about foxes, they are wanton killers who kill for pleasure as well as food.
Just because they look like the family dog does not mean that they act like one, they will kill 20 chickens if they can and only taking one for food they need.
Would bleeding heart antis be so supportive if it was a rat?
The hunting ban was purely political and another way for the Labour party to have a dig at what they thought was a rich mans sport, they would not dream of banning fishing which is a working mans sport as that would have lost them votes.
To those that say fish fell no pain have no idea whther they do or not.
Repeal the Act now and free up the police to catch criminals instead of monitoring this unworkable legislation

The Wickham Man wrote:
People on here glibly talk about culling foxes with well aimed bullets. Have people proposing this actually stopped and thought about this rubbish? Marksmen can cull deer because deer are vegetarian browsers, that stand still to feed enabling the marksman to plan and line a shot. Foxes are not the same thing - as carnivores they wander continuously because their prey source is also mobile. It's typical urban based, ill thought, innacurate nonsense . You seriously think that marksmen with high velocity rifles are going to stake out a coop for days on end and are then a) allowed and b) able to cull foxes just like that? Do you think a farmer with a family is going to risk HV rifle bullets with a range of a kilometre around his farm at any time day or night? Have you thought that a) how many days does a highly trained marksman have to sit in one place motionless on the off chance that he will get half a second of clear shot b) even that most shots will result in wounds not death and the animal will endure days of agonising slow death - worse even than being hunted or c) animals that live in the wild almost always have what we would regard as a cruel and painful death anyway. All the foxes not culled or hunted are not going to frolic around happily until they lie down to sleep like in some Bambi film - the worst thing that came out of the whole hunting argument was that stupid naiive urban sensitivities and innacurate class hatred were allowed to triumph over common sense, factual accuracy and reason. Why is there not the same dumb sentiment about killing rats, mice or pigeons? Is it because their tails aren't so pretty?

Drivel.
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Farmers have found fox dens with pups easy enough in the past, you dont have to "stake out coops". Honestly what planet did you just fly in from, hahahaha!!!!
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Then theres the option of humane trapping and disposal after.
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Point C made me laugh. There isnt the same sentiment over rats and mice because there isnt the history of dressing up like a toff, blowing a horn and riding over some poor soul's private property with a cavalry of horses. The dispatch of rats and mice is generally quick through poison, use of a dog or an air rifle, the "dispatch" of foxes is drawn out as the dogs tear it apart. Its blood-sport, not pest control.

For fox sake, keep the ban.

geoff51 wrote:
It is time we stopped the fluffywuffy thinking about foxes, they are wanton killers who kill for pleasure as well as food.
Just because they look like the family dog does not mean that they act like one, they will kill 20 chickens if they can and only taking one for food they need.
Would bleeding heart antis be so supportive if it was a rat?
The hunting ban was purely political and another way for the Labour party to have a dig at what they thought was a rich mans sport, they would not dream of banning fishing which is a working mans sport as that would have lost them votes.
To those that say fish fell no pain have no idea whther they do or not.
Repeal the Act now and free up the police to catch criminals instead of monitoring this unworkable legislation

Wild Rats spread disease. I havent heard of Foxes doing this. Foxes are just wild animals who hunts or scavenge for food.
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If you are worried about your chickens buy an electric fence and invest in protecting them!!
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The Fox Hunting ban was to stop the tradition of this blood sport, similar to ****/dog fighting and bear baiting.There are other more legitimate and humane ways to deal with foxes.
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The comparison with fishing is a red herring (excuse the pun). I support fishing and I know many fishermen/amateur anglers who are against fox hunting.You cannot compare the two. Fishings a sport, fox hunting on horseback by a load of out of touch snotty toffs isnt. It just reinforces the class society which exists and you geoff would like to keep.
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Cut out the predictable Tory 'beeding heart' comment as well. Its outdated and means nothing.

IW61 and Downfader destroy their arguments by revealing that what actually motivates them is not logic or even compassion but blind hatred for a perceived class. All this tripe about toffs dressing up is fiction - if you went to the new Forest Hunt you would hear more Hampshire accents than market day in Lymington. you would find it more useful to write about reality than these made up visions you use to justify your prejudice. Dressing up is as irrelevant to a hunt as it is to a wedding but the reasons for doing it are the same. Why should that offend you - do you wear jeans to weddings then? Do you suddenly become a hated toff if you put on a suit? If you want to keep a made up version of hunting and its motivation rather then seek objective truth that pretty much illustrates and explains why the Hunting Ban was unjust - we shouldn't do legislation in the country just to satisfy the hatred of ill informed class warrrors - Blair did it to buy you off, and it worked. Now just to get it into your heads one more time because it is an easy concept to understand - Hunting is a pleasant way and sociable way to perform an unpleasant task - namely pest control. It is laughable how you are prepared to countenance digging with terriers as a means to eradicate vermin one one hand but the sheer act of dressing up and riding horses offends you more. I have never hunted but I support the repeal of the ban simply because class hatred should be seen for what it is, and those who posess it shown up for the nasty pathetic little nobodies they really are.

iw61 and downfader argument is spot on wickham man. like it has been said foxes dont spread disease. but kill the rodents that do, foxes are carrion creature it scavenge more than kill. foxes dont kill for the sake of killing, like when it gets inside chicken pen and it kills many of the birds, foxes dont leave the kills there it will eat one and take the rest to be buried for a meal at a later time. and why a chicken owner loses so many chickens in one hit is the fault of the owner of penning up to many chickens in a small area and not having space high up out of reach of foxes.
any thing larger than a rabbit a fox will not hunt, it dont have the energy to keep up a high speed chase, but it will take the old and very weak that larger than a rabbit.
it is all about the toff's keeping there pleasure. at a creature cost of a slow and cruel death. a fox hunt causes more damage to the country side than any other pest.

If you eliminated the stupid iinacurate fascistic and ugly class bias from your post it was quite sensible with points worth arguing. If you are going to screw up everything you say by displaying a hatred of people you don't know there is no point even talking. You are as twisted up with envy as the other two.

Oh bless you wickham man, you seem to feel victimised by the mere mention of "toff". Dont bracket yourself in such a way and you will feel much less defensive.
I forgive you.
Actually, we do shoot foxes with well aimed bullets. And no, we have never missed and hit a foul, nor a cow, sheep, collie, human etc.
Its utter rubbish that this would happen (unless you were shooting in a city)
Traps are very good and effective in towns and on farms and the only reason a fox might get wise to a trap is from them not being set well enough to stop them getting out.
They also dont need to cost a fortune, the game keepers here often build them buy hand very cheaply.
Foxes can be very vicious but only when trapped by us. Get one in a corner, and you have a fight on your hands. It is very very rare for them to get close to us.
Sorry, but you are entirely wrong and I speak from actual real solid experience but as I said, I forgive you.

Iw61 you are right.
Foxes, if undisturbed, will keep coming back to collect the bodies of birds they have killed, just like they do with the lambs.

Anyone who has actually followed a hunt, as opposed to watching it from a distance, or worse, watching it in films, will know that the class argument is really unjustified.
The people who actually run the hunt are the Huntsman and the Whipper-in, and their assistants if any. These are, or were, paid employees of the hunt, ordinary country folk earning a living.
The Field or mounted followers, are just that, they are there for the ride and are expected to do as they are told by the Field Master, who may also by just an employee.
Using hounds to effectively hunt is still legal. The way that the Law requires it to be done nowadays is to use a limited number of hounds only to lift the quarry from a covert. The fox must then be either immediately killed by humane means or allowed to run free. This is obviously where the skilled marksman comes into play.
One other person who was affected by the ban was the terrier man, someone else who just earns their living in the countryside. His or her terriers are still allowed to hunt conies or deal with rats, but can no longer be put to a fox. So bang goes the small fee that the 'Idle Rich' would pass their way for services rendered.
The concept behind hunting with hounds - Dogs against dogs, is that a fit fox will escape and any unfit animal will be caught. A kind of natural selection. You may or may not agree and I am not saying whether it is right or effective, but if it works like that then it does make sense.

As most of the anti comments seen to come from our Socialist/Communist posters it reinforces what I said that the hunting ban by a socialist government was purely a class ideal and based on lack of knowledge and preconcieved ideas of what hunting is actually all about.
With regards to the fishing argument my point of it being a working mens sport and therefore reiforces my belief that it is again a class issue.
Also when it comes to wearing odd clothes have any of you had a close look at fishing gear.
And in case you ask I have been hunting in the past so do speak from experience, and no I am not a toff just a working man with an honest trade

Relying on the opinion of that discredited lying warmongering scuzzball Bliar is laughable.

Glad someone has appeared at last to back up what I have been saying. If the ridiculous and innacurate class hate fascism is removed from this debate then sensible points are made on both sides. Unfortunately, some morons who think they are on the far left (which puts them very close on the ciircle to where they meet people on the far right) have to invent a false image of foxhunting and then spend their time attacking the false version - a classic rhetorical trick used on the lumpenprole - which is why a worshipping Southy just fell into their arms. NITN is so intent on attacking me and anything I say simply becuase I have rubbished her facile arguments in previous unrelated posts that her good points become lost in her bile. Ultimately, any livestock farmer working longer hours than any town based worker ever would does not want to spend what limited free time he has setting up time consuming and over elaborate, over expensive eradication schemes with no guarantee of success. Like others have said above if a farmer or his family ride horses they can at least combine a bit of exhileration and soclailising while disrupting the pest population.

Some of the comments on here are so funny idiotic people spouting off about things they have no idea about. Wickerman is spot on this is a class issue pure and simple and Iw61 how you can say you support the killing of one animal and not another is totally hypacritical is sticking a hook through a fishes lip humane I don't think. The fact is because you proberbly fish and enjoy it's okay because you don't hunt and think it's only for the upper classes you don't like it. If you kill for sport you can't preach about the evils of other people doing it regardless of what animal it is end of story!