Walkout will be 'most severe' in city’s memory (From This is Hampshire)
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Walkout will be 'most severe' in Southampton’s memory
2:27pm Tuesday 17th May 2011 in News
BINS will start overflowing in Southampton streets next week after unions warned they were launching strike action in a festering dispute over pay.
More than 180 refuse collectors will walk out for five days on Monday in, what could be, the most severe industrial action in living memory.
When they return, they will not be playing catch-up because all council staff will be working to rule and refusing overtime.
Further bin strikes have not been ruled out as part of rolling action designed for maximum impact.
As reported yesterday, unions Unite and Unison have vowed to launch waves of crippling industrial action affecting 2,600 members, also including gravediggers, street cleaners and parking wardens.
It has left residents fearing chaos and rat infestations.
Unite convenor, Mark Wood, who represents binmen, street cleaners and park rangers, said: “It is going to be wholesale disruption to services, in particular waste collection, and create a backlog of rubbish and waste on the street.
“We can strike indefinitely.
It’s difficult to recall anything as big as this in Southampton.”
Mr Wood said members had been “backed into a corner” after Southampton City Council gave 4,300 of its staff 90 days to sign new contracts in March which cut pay and conditions. The new, worse terms would start on July 1.
The move will help plug a £25m budget hole in 2011/12 after huge Government funding cuts.
Unison branch secretary, Mike Tucker, added: “Only a negotiated settlement can avoid a summer of strikes and disruption.
“The selective strike action will mean key sections of the council will be on strike for extended periods “The industrial action, we hope, will bring the Conservative-controlled council back to the negotiating table.”
Chris Morris, chairman of the Federation of Southampton Tenants and Residents Associations, said the strikes were certain to cause chaos.
She said: “I dread to think what it is going to be like.
"There will be a massive compost pile. It is going to be filthy and smelly and there will be a rat infestation.”
In particular, she feared for people living in flats, some of which have at least three collections a week.
She said: “I can only imagine the amount of rubbish which will pile up.”
A total of 495 union members who took part in the secret ballots voted in favour of strike action (55 per cent).
A further 725 backed industrial action short of a strike (80 per cent). This will includes social workers, environmental health workers and carers refusing to use their private cars for work.
Union bosses are tight-lipped on which members will strike next as they are only required to notify the council one week ahead of the strikes.
Contingency Plans
Council leader Royston Smith, pictured, said there were “robust contingency plans in place” to keep services operating.
He said: “I hope we don’t need to put these plans into action, and I would urge the unions to reconsider their decision to strike.
“Less than 500 staff voted to strike, and I don’t believe they are representative of the majority who just want to get on and deliver services for the city and its residents.
“If the unions were genuinely interested in representing their members’ interests then they should understand we are trying to protect jobs and services.
“Meanwhile, this action will have a real impact on services our customers depend on.
“While I fully understand any reduction in wages will be difficult for our staff, this is the only way to protect our residents from losing their libraries, leisure centres, and Sure Start Centres.
“The reality is that without making changes to staff terms and conditions, we would be looking at losing a further 400 jobs over the space of the next two years.
“That would mean dozens of front line services our residents rely on facing the axe. I am determined not to allow that to happen.
Southampton deserves better.”
Comments(102)
Big Mac
says...
2:42pm Tue 17 May 11
Another rubbish story.
MGRA
says...
2:43pm Tue 17 May 11
the solution is so simple. Privatise refuse collection in southampton.
sotonbusdriver
says...
2:45pm Tue 17 May 11
southy wrote:I'd more than happy to drive a bin lorry as long as it was minimum pay!!!!!
Don't forget on the 30th June a General Strike has been called all Union memebers check with your Shop Steward.
There are a lot of people un-employed at the moment and therefore it's an employers market...
These people want to think themselves lucky they have a job...
If I can find where my local collection people live they my wake to find their garden full with my rubbish as I don't want it piling up outside my house,,,
Justice can be sweet.
stay local
says...
2:51pm Tue 17 May 11
Come on Southy will the TUSC be protesting at inequalities of pay between the public and private sector, will they demand parity and the end of fat cats?
Where is the spokesman for equality?
Where is the spokesman for equality?
southy
says...
2:56pm Tue 17 May 11
MGRA wrote:Its all ready sub-contracted out.
the solution is so simple. Privatise refuse collection in southampton.
dave1958
says...
2:59pm Tue 17 May 11
sotonbusdriver wrote:This sort of comment is just typical of the selfishness that we have in society today. To many people have the attitude that "Im alright Jack, **** you", and if I can screw someone for a few pence less than that is great. Where are people sense of descency, and remember you may decry the dustcart driver today, but that could be YOU tomorrow. Everyone has to make a stand at sometime and the only way is for everyone to stand together, for divided we fall, united we stand. And remember the words of David Cameron "We are all in this together", that does mean Royston Smith and other members of the council's cabinet, and directors who should be sharing the pain equally with all other employees of the City Council.
southy wrote: Don't forget on the 30th June a General Strike has been called all Union memebers check with your Shop Steward.I'd more than happy to drive a bin lorry as long as it was minimum pay!!!!! There are a lot of people un-employed at the moment and therefore it's an employers market... These people want to think themselves lucky they have a job... If I can find where my local collection people live they my wake to find their garden full with my rubbish as I don't want it piling up outside my house,,, Justice can be sweet.
southy
says...
3:04pm Tue 17 May 11
sotonbusdriver wrote:Driving a bus, means that you will need another licence to drive a bin lorry, and if you have not all ready got one to cover you then it means its a cost that you will need to fork out on. Plus you will need a plant operator licence to operate a bin lorry more money to fork out on.
southy wrote:I'd more than happy to drive a bin lorry as long as it was minimum pay!!!!!
Don't forget on the 30th June a General Strike has been called all Union memebers check with your Shop Steward.
There are a lot of people un-employed at the moment and therefore it's an employers market...
These people want to think themselves lucky they have a job...
If I can find where my local collection people live they my wake to find their garden full with my rubbish as I don't want it piling up outside my house,,,
Justice can be sweet.
Diseases have no boundrys, just think about that for a while, Remember the last big bin strike, Dysentery broke out in Hairfield.
southy
says...
3:09pm Tue 17 May 11
stay local wrote:The TUSC will be supporting them, and if the private sector workers don't want to join a Union then that is there lost, if they joined a Union then there bosses would not be able to walk over them so easy and would be force to the table to talk, remember you are weak if standing alone, but together you will achive some thing.
Come on Southy will the TUSC be protesting at inequalities of pay between the public and private sector, will they demand parity and the end of fat cats?
Where is the spokesman for equality?
The TUSC are the spokesman for equality and fairness. they are the only ones willing to do this.
MGRA
says...
3:26pm Tue 17 May 11
southy wrote:so cancel the contract and award it to another company ! "simples" as those stupid meerkats say
MGRA wrote: the solution is so simple. Privatise refuse collection in southampton.Its all ready sub-contracted out.
freemantlegirl2
says...
3:30pm Tue 17 May 11
dave1958 wrote:Too right Dave, I cannot believe the selfish, self-centred behaviour of some people - who take these vital services for granted - remember the government promised no cuts in front line services... they've just let their councils take all the flack and then bleat about having no control over councils making staff redundant, pay cuts and conditions being eroded. Let me know which bus you drive because we'll get everyone to boycott it and perhaps your employers won't be impressed!!
sotonbusdriver wrote:This sort of comment is just typical of the selfishness that we have in society today. To many people have the attitude that "Im alright Jack, **** you", and if I can screw someone for a few pence less than that is great. Where are people sense of descency, and remember you may decry the dustcart driver today, but that could be YOU tomorrow. Everyone has to make a stand at sometime and the only way is for everyone to stand together, for divided we fall, united we stand. And remember the words of David Cameron "We are all in this together", that does mean Royston Smith and other members of the council's cabinet, and directors who should be sharing the pain equally with all other employees of the City Council.
southy wrote: Don't forget on the 30th June a General Strike has been called all Union memebers check with your Shop Steward.I'd more than happy to drive a bin lorry as long as it was minimum pay!!!!! There are a lot of people un-employed at the moment and therefore it's an employers market... These people want to think themselves lucky they have a job... If I can find where my local collection people live they my wake to find their garden full with my rubbish as I don't want it piling up outside my house,,, Justice can be sweet.
I bet there's not many of us, me included, who would like getting up at the crack of down on dark winter mornings in the cold and carting rubbish about and receiving abuse because they're blocking the road on collections which I've witnessed outside my house (ridicuous! if you're late for work ;leave earlier). I'm always very supportive of my dustmen they do a great job. They have a right to continue receiving a fair wage for doing so!
southy
says...
3:35pm Tue 17 May 11
MGRA wrote:Sure at a very high cost to the city tax payers for breaking the contract. not so simples after all is it.
southy wrote:so cancel the contract and award it to another company ! "simples" as those stupid meerkats say
MGRA wrote: the solution is so simple. Privatise refuse collection in southampton.Its all ready sub-contracted out.
MGRA
says...
3:41pm Tue 17 May 11
southy wrote:err, no, at no cost at all. If what you say is correct, the dispute is between the refuse company and its staff. Hence the council can find the company in breach of its original contract and hence simply get another company to collect the refuse.
MGRA wrote:Sure at a very high cost to the city tax payers for breaking the contract. not so simples after all is it.southy wrote:so cancel the contract and award it to another company ! "simples" as those stupid meerkats sayMGRA wrote: the solution is so simple. Privatise refuse collection in southampton.Its all ready sub-contracted out.
MGRA
says...
3:44pm Tue 17 May 11
I think you are wrong Southy. It says above council "staff" , not council "contracted staff". If you are correct, who has the contract for refuse collection ?
dustybin123
says...
3:45pm Tue 17 May 11
Southy, I wish you'd get your info right, the waste collection service in Southampton is NOT sub-contracted out, all household waste is collected by SCC
Condor Man
says...
3:45pm Tue 17 May 11
I'll just have to take my rubbish to the tip as I'm sure others will. We must not be held to ransom by anyone.
southy
says...
3:45pm Tue 17 May 11
freemantlegirl2 wrote:Good post FM2.
dave1958 wrote:Too right Dave, I cannot believe the selfish, self-centred behaviour of some people - who take these vital services for granted - remember the government promised no cuts in front line services... they've just let their councils take all the flack and then bleat about having no control over councils making staff redundant, pay cuts and conditions being eroded. Let me know which bus you drive because we'll get everyone to boycott it and perhaps your employers won't be impressed!!
sotonbusdriver wrote:This sort of comment is just typical of the selfishness that we have in society today. To many people have the attitude that "Im alright Jack, **** you", and if I can screw someone for a few pence less than that is great. Where are people sense of descency, and remember you may decry the dustcart driver today, but that could be YOU tomorrow. Everyone has to make a stand at sometime and the only way is for everyone to stand together, for divided we fall, united we stand. And remember the words of David Cameron "We are all in this together", that does mean Royston Smith and other members of the council's cabinet, and directors who should be sharing the pain equally with all other employees of the City Council.
southy wrote: Don't forget on the 30th June a General Strike has been called all Union memebers check with your Shop Steward.I'd more than happy to drive a bin lorry as long as it was minimum pay!!!!! There are a lot of people un-employed at the moment and therefore it's an employers market... These people want to think themselves lucky they have a job... If I can find where my local collection people live they my wake to find their garden full with my rubbish as I don't want it piling up outside my house,,, Justice can be sweet.
I bet there's not many of us, me included, who would like getting up at the crack of down on dark winter mornings in the cold and carting rubbish about and receiving abuse because they're blocking the road on collections which I've witnessed outside my house (ridicuous! if you're late for work ;leave earlier). I'm always very supportive of my dustmen they do a great job. They have a right to continue receiving a fair wage for doing so!
But this Council have bought this on them selfs, they could of easy said no to any cuts, in doing so it would put the pressure back on the Government to think again in what they are doing, but they are a Tory Council and will back the up the Government, Even a Labour council would put cuts in place, but a TUSC one will not. They want the Government to hit those who are causing the debt in the first place with there £120 Billion a year in Tax Advoidance and Evasion.
At the moment the poor are paying the Rich to be Rich.
Mental Micky
says...
3:50pm Tue 17 May 11
I'll take all my rubbish to the local recycling facility like I have to do every month anyway, and the Poles who work there will be happy to take it. If the strike goes on I'll use my trucks to collect everyone else's as well then the council will realise that they can do without some of the current bin jobs and I might get myself a nice long term contract. Go for it guys. You are only privatising yourselves.
Higginz
says...
3:51pm Tue 17 May 11
Perhaps those in Southampton can claim a reimbursement on their council tax?
bitterne parkie
says...
3:57pm Tue 17 May 11
sotonbusdriver wrote:i am not saying if i agree or disagree with the pay cuts or strike action but i want to say as an scc employee that i am not lucky to have my job. I worked hard to keep it this tax year. i have been made redundant before and took 9 months to find this job. i know it is hard. however the people who kept their jobs with the council after the latest cull earned them. sadly some of the ones made redundant earned theirs too. The action is about being fair. in a time when people are tightening their belts along with the rest a pay cut on top is unfair. the bin men are already on lower incomes and probably don't have any notches left to tighten as it is.
southy wrote: Don't forget on the 30th June a General Strike has been called all Union memebers check with your Shop Steward.I'd more than happy to drive a bin lorry as long as it was minimum pay!!!!! There are a lot of people un-employed at the moment and therefore it's an employers market... These people want to think themselves lucky they have a job... If I can find where my local collection people live they my wake to find their garden full with my rubbish as I don't want it piling up outside my house,,, Justice can be sweet.
i ask you to just have some thought for those hard working people who are struggling already who would have been hit hard enough with a pay freeze.
sfby
says...
4:00pm Tue 17 May 11
"When they return, they will not be playing catch-up because all council staff will be working to rule and refusing overtime"
WRONG - not all council staff will be doing this - only union members.
WRONG - not all council staff will be doing this - only union members.
MGRA
says...
4:07pm Tue 17 May 11
Mental Micky wrote:great idea,,,, if all of southampton stood up to these union dinosaurs and cleared their own refuse to the council sites then its job done. Blitz spirit and all that.... as for working to rule, that will just mean more overtime for the non-union staff who are not work-shy lazy fops. They should be able to work those extra hours and may be later in the summer treat themselves to nice little break in the med, whilst the dinosaurs are still living in 1975 and stubbornly refusing to buy ketchup in a plastic squeezy bottle preferring instead to stick to the traditional glass bottle... "coz thats how its always been" LOL
I'll take all my rubbish to the local recycling facility like I have to do every month anyway, and the Poles who work there will be happy to take it. If the strike goes on I'll use my trucks to collect everyone else's as well then the council will realise that they can do without some of the current bin jobs and I might get myself a nice long term contract. Go for it guys. You are only privatising yourselves.
sotonbusdriver
says...
4:07pm Tue 17 May 11
bitterne parkie wrote:Their income can't be any lower than my £67pw Job Seekers Allowance.....
sotonbusdriver wrote:i am not saying if i agree or disagree with the pay cuts or strike action but i want to say as an scc employee that i am not lucky to have my job. I worked hard to keep it this tax year. i have been made redundant before and took 9 months to find this job. i know it is hard. however the people who kept their jobs with the council after the latest cull earned them. sadly some of the ones made redundant earned theirs too. The action is about being fair. in a time when people are tightening their belts along with the rest a pay cut on top is unfair. the bin men are already on lower incomes and probably don't have any notches left to tighten as it is.
southy wrote: Don't forget on the 30th June a General Strike has been called all Union memebers check with your Shop Steward.I'd more than happy to drive a bin lorry as long as it was minimum pay!!!!! There are a lot of people un-employed at the moment and therefore it's an employers market... These people want to think themselves lucky they have a job... If I can find where my local collection people live they my wake to find their garden full with my rubbish as I don't want it piling up outside my house,,, Justice can be sweet.
i ask you to just have some thought for those hard working people who are struggling already who would have been hit hard enough with a pay freeze.
loosehead
says...
4:11pm Tue 17 May 11
When I tried to apply for a binmans job I was told an agency in Totton employed all bin men so does this mean only the drivers are employed & through their selfish actions all the rest of them will be unpaid as the agency isn't going to pay them if there's no work are they? These men are on the minimum wage are the drivers? so fm2 & Southy your beloved unions are denying people the right to work & the right to earn a living are you proud of them? When will Southy get it into his thick head that everyone & every party says that cuts have to happen I hope your there when 650 not 250 people are made redundant & when they go to a private company & look for work they find that the employer wont take a risk on them after the disruption they have caused.because that will happen ask the printers who went on strike to then see Wapping & no further employment for them & there was nothing the mighty unions could do about it.Sooner or later you of the left will have to work it out hit business & Banks & your fellow brothers around the world ( Europe) will give them any thing they want if they take their business there & they will. we have got to get the debt paid of before we lose our credit rating so the slow approach is no good.so the short sharp treatment will see the pain & then the recovery or the light at the end of the tunnel.Labours way the children will be still paying of the debt & that's only if we don't lose our credit rating if we do then God help us.Southy unlike you I've talked to low paid workers like Postmen, shop workers& hotel workers & they don't agree with the council workers/Unions & would quite happily swap jobs on the lower pay structure so that's the LOW paid workers not the HIGH paid council workers.Oh! if as you say bin men are sub-contracted then they have no reason what so ever to strike as they are not employed by the council are they?
loosehead
says...
4:21pm Tue 17 May 11
Mental Micky wrote:Mentalmickey I lived in Thailand & paid for bin collections so tell me I only need my green & blue bins emptied once a month how much would you charge for this service ? as at the moment I'm paying for this service for every week collection & as I recycle & don't make that much rubbish I'm paying for a service I don't really need & I think what you suggested is a BLOODY GREAT IDEA.if I could take this of my council tax & you could do it cheap enough I can tell you many people on my estate who would be interested,So if they strike you know the small minority of council workers you could be in business.Privatisati
I'll take all my rubbish to the local recycling facility like I have to do every month anyway, and the Poles who work there will be happy to take it. If the strike goes on I'll use my trucks to collect everyone else's as well then the council will realise that they can do without some of the current bin jobs and I might get myself a nice long term contract. Go for it guys. You are only privatising yourselves.
on here we come
Lone Ranger.
says...
4:37pm Tue 17 May 11
freemantlegirl2 wrote:Quite right fg2............ There is a limit to the amount that people will be screwed by their employers. The workers of SCC have now decided on that limit.
dave1958 wrote:Too right Dave, I cannot believe the selfish, self-centred behaviour of some people - who take these vital services for granted - remember the government promised no cuts in front line services... they've just let their councils take all the flack and then bleat about having no control over councils making staff redundant, pay cuts and conditions being eroded. Let me know which bus you drive because we'll get everyone to boycott it and perhaps your employers won't be impressed!!
sotonbusdriver wrote:This sort of comment is just typical of the selfishness that we have in society today. To many people have the attitude that "Im alright Jack, **** you", and if I can screw someone for a few pence less than that is great. Where are people sense of descency, and remember you may decry the dustcart driver today, but that could be YOU tomorrow. Everyone has to make a stand at sometime and the only way is for everyone to stand together, for divided we fall, united we stand. And remember the words of David Cameron "We are all in this together", that does mean Royston Smith and other members of the council's cabinet, and directors who should be sharing the pain equally with all other employees of the City Council.
southy wrote: Don't forget on the 30th June a General Strike has been called all Union memebers check with your Shop Steward.I'd more than happy to drive a bin lorry as long as it was minimum pay!!!!! There are a lot of people un-employed at the moment and therefore it's an employers market... These people want to think themselves lucky they have a job... If I can find where my local collection people live they my wake to find their garden full with my rubbish as I don't want it piling up outside my house,,, Justice can be sweet.
I bet there's not many of us, me included, who would like getting up at the crack of down on dark winter mornings in the cold and carting rubbish about and receiving abuse because they're blocking the road on collections which I've witnessed outside my house (ridicuous! if you're late for work ;leave earlier). I'm always very supportive of my dustmen they do a great job. They have a right to continue receiving a fair wage for doing so!
.
Good luck to them
Tony S
says...
4:40pm Tue 17 May 11
I have some sympathies with both sides. The council/government have to cut costs. the choice is pay cuts or job cuts.
However thier solution cuts pay and enforced increased annual leave reducing pay.
How much of a pay cut could your family budget take?
When I was young, my direct debits took 90% of my basic take home pay and i ate from overtime pay.
Now I am older my retirement date is governed by how quicly I can repay my mortgage. If i had a hefty pay cut I would have to work quite a few more years
However thier solution cuts pay and enforced increased annual leave reducing pay.
How much of a pay cut could your family budget take?
When I was young, my direct debits took 90% of my basic take home pay and i ate from overtime pay.
Now I am older my retirement date is governed by how quicly I can repay my mortgage. If i had a hefty pay cut I would have to work quite a few more years
05woodj1
says...
4:42pm Tue 17 May 11
What the hell cant people be happy theyve got effing jobs! Ive been looking for months! If you lot are striking im applying!!!!
Nod
says...
4:50pm Tue 17 May 11
Condor Man wrote:absolutely, I'll take my rubbish to the tip myself and if the Southampton refuse centres are closed I'll pop to Eastleigh or Hythe.
I'll just have to take my rubbish to the tip as I'm sure others will. We must not be held to ransom by anyone.
The Private sector have taken the hit for the last 3 years. We cannot allow Public sector workers to be immune. They should put up or find a more lucrative job elsewhere.
SotonLad
says...
4:53pm Tue 17 May 11
Condor Man wrote:Well said. When will people realise that if cuts are not made then more jobs will go. Very short sighted members listening to the Unions. The members will ultimately lose out, not the Unions. They need to be very careful, the jobs can be filled very quickly. Im all for a fair deal for everyone however "bigger picture people"! Think about the future, the mess the country is in and the cuts we all have to reluctantly accept in order to get it back on its feet. The cuts are going to happen, fact, they have to. Lets make the best of it and save as many jobs as we can. In the current state the country is in if you strike, your a fool.
I'll just have to take my rubbish to the tip as I'm sure others will. We must not be held to ransom by anyone.
southy
says...
4:57pm Tue 17 May 11
MGRA wrote:loosehead, let see if I can break this down for you so it easier for you under stand.
I think you are wrong Southy. It says above council "staff" , not council "contracted staff". If you are correct, who has the contract for refuse collection ?
Yes your right it is a company in Totton, not an Agency. The set up is very much like the Hospital Cleaning Staff, you work for the Council but the Admin of it is done by a contractor. If you remember this was set up this way in the late mid 80's under a Thatcher Government, to cut cost but its ended up costing more. Your Empolyed by the Council but not directally. So in reality we are paying extra just for the Admin to be done by an out side contractor.
I see you say a bit about Wapping, if you remember back in 85, the Sun moved out of Fleet Street and because how the new printing was done, Murdoch said he did not need printers any more, and gave there jobs to Eric Hammoun Electricains Union. Which started that long Strike.
To much to correct with that tunnel vision you have, But when it hits you in a big way then maybe you might to under stand what is really going on..
Dave of Dibden
says...
5:20pm Tue 17 May 11
Biffa will be pleased to do the work
freemantlegirl2
says...
5:29pm Tue 17 May 11
Mental Micky wrote:I think you'll find the tip will also be closed people!!!! they are part of the same team - doh....
I'll take all my rubbish to the local recycling facility like I have to do every month anyway, and the Poles who work there will be happy to take it. If the strike goes on I'll use my trucks to collect everyone else's as well then the council will realise that they can do without some of the current bin jobs and I might get myself a nice long term contract. Go for it guys. You are only privatising yourselves.
Southy, dusty bin is right our rubbish isn't contracted out.. if people want a load of private contractors who are hitlers as in other parts of the country, with not taking away bins where the lid is up, not helping old or disabled people with special collections and basically giving little service (which you will still pay for with your council tax btw) then good luck. I certainly don't! There is one bin man on our round who's been doing it for years and he is the most polite and friendly and helpful person, and has to put up with craparroo from people like you.....
As for hte argument well I don't use that service so I won't pay for it, well if we all did that nothing would be funded and that would mean that you are all anarchists because you won't pay for things that you don't want. Does that mean when my kids leave school I stop paying then? when I dont's use the doctors or hospital I can stop paying NI, or if I haven't used fire services ever then I don't have to pay the fire part. If I didn't know better I had previously thought there were some intelligent counter-arguments and constructive comments here but obviously not...
Again, you may not agree with some strikes I haven't in the past (teachers being one of them) but unions are the reason EVERYONE has decent working conditions (apart from illegal stuff) in this country and there are things called contracts of employment, terms and conditions, rates of pay etc. All of which everyone who is unemployed is entitled to. To not support a genuine case of grievance just **** you are unemployed yourself Sotonbusdriver is just bitter. Just remember when they privatised bus services they also got rid of staff like conductors, operated on the bare minimum of services and also received subsidies from councils although of course have been minimised...
George4th
says...
5:59pm Tue 17 May 11
Unions did a great job back in the early days of unions. They helped to lay the basics of reasonable pay and reasonable conditions - once done there is very little to add! That was a very very long time ago! They ruined it with their Union Dictatorships and people like Red Robbo and Jack Jones (Russian spy that he was!) et al and they had more days off striking than they did holidays! They helped to put our economy and our progress back about 50 years!
We had the growth of the Industrial Revolution and the Unions did the opposite!!!
We do not need all these Union people in today's world - some, yes.
With regard to the non rubbish collection. Me, I'd let it pile up. The public are already against any strike and seeing the rubbish pile up will make them seeth!
We had the growth of the Industrial Revolution and the Unions did the opposite!!!
We do not need all these Union people in today's world - some, yes.
With regard to the non rubbish collection. Me, I'd let it pile up. The public are already against any strike and seeing the rubbish pile up will make them seeth!
Rob444
says...
6:28pm Tue 17 May 11
This attack on workers rights only goes to prove the importance of having trade unions.
The bosses have too much power these days, I wish the workers success.
The bosses have too much power these days, I wish the workers success.
Condor Man
says...
6:28pm Tue 17 May 11
the tip is run by Veolia, who will surely be licking their lips at the thought of emptying bins in Southampton. 2 things the binmen have failed to consider as as follows: if they fail to collect next week it will give SCC a better idea whether fortnightly collections might work (personally I think they would, families should cut down on their wasteful habits). The other is that plenty of firms like Veolia, Suez and the likes are waiting in the wings to take over. 30 years ago the leader of Wandsworth Council came to prominance for breaking a binmens strike. His name? Christopher Chope.
If the tip in Southampton is closed I'll use the Eastleigh ones in Hedge End or Netley.
If the tip in Southampton is closed I'll use the Eastleigh ones in Hedge End or Netley.
Bossy-Boots
says...
6:46pm Tue 17 May 11
The danger for the unions is that if those striking are in anyway surplus to requirements or replaceable this will show it up. So brave gamble given the number of unemployed people.
On a related note if less than 500 members have voted to strike and they are going ahead with this. Unless the council emplys less than a thousand people the unions are not choosing to represent all members equally.
Indeed as the Unions financially prop up the labour party it seems so politically convenient for the labour party that the unions are causing the Tories and lib dem strife. Could it be they have a political agenda rather than protection of their workers, because lets face it if labour is in charge they could ill afford to say no to unoin demands.
Perhaps the solution would be for the Govt and councils to not recognise the unions till such a time that they are no longer propping up the labour party. There would then be no doubt about them behaving fairly to ALL their members.
On a related note if less than 500 members have voted to strike and they are going ahead with this. Unless the council emplys less than a thousand people the unions are not choosing to represent all members equally.
Indeed as the Unions financially prop up the labour party it seems so politically convenient for the labour party that the unions are causing the Tories and lib dem strife. Could it be they have a political agenda rather than protection of their workers, because lets face it if labour is in charge they could ill afford to say no to unoin demands.
Perhaps the solution would be for the Govt and councils to not recognise the unions till such a time that they are no longer propping up the labour party. There would then be no doubt about them behaving fairly to ALL their members.
B Copper
says...
6:48pm Tue 17 May 11
Most Binmen are absolutely useless lazy sods who look for every reason not to take your rubbish. Missed rubbish collections are becoming more and more frequent even though their job gets easier and easier. To think once upon a time they had to manually lift all the trash cans. Now they just have to wheel or hook up to the truck and pull a lever leaving them all the time to decide if they will or wont take your rubbish, or report you for a fine. You gotta laugh just sack em and get some polish in at least they will do it!
Georgem
says...
7:51pm Tue 17 May 11
dustybin123 wrote:Southy is always right. It's reality that's inaccurate.
Southy, I wish you'd get your info right, the waste collection service in Southampton is NOT sub-contracted out, all household waste is collected by SCC
StEmmosfire
says...
8:07pm Tue 17 May 11
Will I actually notice, me bins never get emptied as it is, and as for my green bag well...
loosehead
says...
9:06pm Tue 17 May 11
southy wrote:Southy I knew you had no clue what you are talking about & now you have confirmed it.The company doesn't run the admin they are a Temps agency & the dustmen?person is employed by them to work on the bins it's exactly what BAT did with Rights thats why as a trainer I couldn't say how bad they were & my own manager had to go through the agency before we could get rid of them. I think the agency was Greenham any way they advertise in the job section of the echo & they begin with G. As for Wapping with all the strikes it was decided that they had to move & break the printing unions stranglehold on the papers so with another Unions help they moved to wapping & my friend works there & has since the beginning he even gave up Rugby to do it .Now answer this you say you are a socialist so surely you want to see as many people in work than out of work don't you? so isn't 250 job losses better than 650 job losses? do you honestly believe if the Unions & opposition parties had put proposals forward besides hitting the banks but sensible ideas on how to save money don't you think with local elections looming the tories would have listened ? they're not politically suicidal so please let us all here from you the FONT of all knowledge exactly what alternative proposal that were put forward?I hope to Christ that the 90% who didn't vote for strike action go to work & cross the picket line or the dole queue is waiting
MGRA wrote:loosehead, let see if I can break this down for you so it easier for you under stand.
I think you are wrong Southy. It says above council "staff" , not council "contracted staff". If you are correct, who has the contract for refuse collection ?
Yes your right it is a company in Totton, not an Agency. The set up is very much like the Hospital Cleaning Staff, you work for the Council but the Admin of it is done by a contractor. If you remember this was set up this way in the late mid 80's under a Thatcher Government, to cut cost but its ended up costing more. Your Empolyed by the Council but not directally. So in reality we are paying extra just for the Admin to be done by an out side contractor.
I see you say a bit about Wapping, if you remember back in 85, the Sun moved out of Fleet Street and because how the new printing was done, Murdoch said he did not need printers any more, and gave there jobs to Eric Hammoun Electricains Union. Which started that long Strike.
To much to correct with that tunnel vision you have, But when it hits you in a big way then maybe you might to under stand what is really going on..
road sweeper
says...
9:07pm Tue 17 May 11
Budget cuts were neccessary due to the government reducing funding to
the council , whilst at the same freezing council tax for the year."
We are all in it together " a repeated quote.The council state they had no choice but to make these cuts , why did they not give the concil tax payers of southampton a CHOICE as to whether they would be prepared to pay a increase in the region of £2 a week in the following year in order to avoid all the proposed cuts and cuts that have taken place. the option was never given .PREHAPS THE COUNCIL WERE AFFRAID that residents of Southampton would have taken the view that we are all in it together and agrred to the proposal
the council , whilst at the same freezing council tax for the year."
We are all in it together " a repeated quote.The council state they had no choice but to make these cuts , why did they not give the concil tax payers of southampton a CHOICE as to whether they would be prepared to pay a increase in the region of £2 a week in the following year in order to avoid all the proposed cuts and cuts that have taken place. the option was never given .PREHAPS THE COUNCIL WERE AFFRAID that residents of Southampton would have taken the view that we are all in it together and agrred to the proposal
sarfhamton
says...
9:22pm Tue 17 May 11
POWER TO THE PEOPLE!!
Up the workers!
I will setting fire to my rubbish so i dont care
Up the workers!
I will setting fire to my rubbish so i dont care
NotConvinced!!
says...
10:27pm Tue 17 May 11
Anyone notice the millions of pounds being spent on the Titanic museum and other vanity projects around the town? Hard for a council to cry poor when it's splashing the cash.
Remind me again what happened to the working classes on the Titanic.............
..
Remind me again what happened to the working classes on the Titanic.............
..
Just A Voice
says...
10:32pm Tue 17 May 11
Royston say's
“While I fully understand any reduction in wages will be difficult for our staff, this is the only way to protect our residents from losing their libraries, leisure centres, and Sure Start Centres.
Would that be libraries manned by volunteers? or leisure centres your lot are flogging off to private companies? or even maybe the Sure Start centres you have been falling over yourself to close since the general election?
Royston, before you threaten Sure Starts (whilst blaming the unions for closing them) you should have a word with the other Tory idiot in Hampshire, even Thornber is reconsidering closing Sure Start Centres, remember also the threat to close Sure Starts cost you a place at Westminster, even if it wasn't strictly true, it stopped you getting elected
Don't forget your up next year, people won't forget Royston....
“While I fully understand any reduction in wages will be difficult for our staff, this is the only way to protect our residents from losing their libraries, leisure centres, and Sure Start Centres.
Would that be libraries manned by volunteers? or leisure centres your lot are flogging off to private companies? or even maybe the Sure Start centres you have been falling over yourself to close since the general election?
Royston, before you threaten Sure Starts (whilst blaming the unions for closing them) you should have a word with the other Tory idiot in Hampshire, even Thornber is reconsidering closing Sure Start Centres, remember also the threat to close Sure Starts cost you a place at Westminster, even if it wasn't strictly true, it stopped you getting elected
Don't forget your up next year, people won't forget Royston....
grumpy and middle aged
says...
11:04pm Tue 17 May 11
I very much support unions in the work place and people must stand up for themselves but I am level headed to be realistic. 180 men thats 3 to a waggon so thats 60 waggons going around the city everyday collecting waste. I dont think so but I dare say they need to employ that amount of people to compensate for the sick notes amoungst them. Get rid of the wasters within the system.
southy
says...
11:18pm Tue 17 May 11
loosehead wrote:I do know. they work indirectlly to the council more or less the same set up as the hospital cleaners.
southy wrote:Southy I knew you had no clue what you are talking about & now you have confirmed it.The company doesn't run the admin they are a Temps agency & the dustmen?person is employed by them to work on the bins it's exactly what BAT did with Rights thats why as a trainer I couldn't say how bad they were & my own manager had to go through the agency before we could get rid of them. I think the agency was Greenham any way they advertise in the job section of the echo & they begin with G. As for Wapping with all the strikes it was decided that they had to move & break the printing unions stranglehold on the papers so with another Unions help they moved to wapping & my friend works there & has since the beginning he even gave up Rugby to do it .Now answer this you say you are a socialist so surely you want to see as many people in work than out of work don't you? so isn't 250 job losses better than 650 job losses? do you honestly believe if the Unions & opposition parties had put proposals forward besides hitting the banks but sensible ideas on how to save money don't you think with local elections looming the tories would have listened ? they're not politically suicidal so please let us all here from you the FONT of all knowledge exactly what alternative proposal that were put forward?I hope to Christ that the 90% who didn't vote for strike action go to work & cross the picket line or the dole queue is waiting
MGRA wrote:loosehead, let see if I can break this down for you so it easier for you under stand.
I think you are wrong Southy. It says above council "staff" , not council "contracted staff". If you are correct, who has the contract for refuse collection ?
Yes your right it is a company in Totton, not an Agency. The set up is very much like the Hospital Cleaning Staff, you work for the Council but the Admin of it is done by a contractor. If you remember this was set up this way in the late mid 80's under a Thatcher Government, to cut cost but its ended up costing more. Your Empolyed by the Council but not directally. So in reality we are paying extra just for the Admin to be done by an out side contractor.
I see you say a bit about Wapping, if you remember back in 85, the Sun moved out of Fleet Street and because how the new printing was done, Murdoch said he did not need printers any more, and gave there jobs to Eric Hammoun Electricains Union. Which started that long Strike.
To much to correct with that tunnel vision you have, But when it hits you in a big way then maybe you might to under stand what is really going on..
It was the move to wapping that cause the strikes, for Murdoch, the paper own delivery service back up the printers and went out on strike also, and Murdoch bought in a delivery firm. Then came the black lash against Eric Hamound Union, there members was blacklisted on contracts around the country. It brought Eric Hamound to book, at the TUC conference where his Union was broken up and merge with another Union.
They should not **** foot around with the council now, they should go out on strike and stay out, till it is resolved.
Any Council should be saying no to any cuts, and throw that pressure back at the Government, things will not change till they do, the Government should go for Tax Advoidance and Evasion first claim back that £120 Billion a year first, before even thinking about any cuts.
Torchie1
says...
1:40am Wed 18 May 11
southy wrote:It would be a help if all of the people who use rolling tobacco bought it from recognised outlets instead of avoiding the tax by buying it off the back of a lorry. If tax avoidance is such a crime then millions of smokers are just as much to blame for the shortage of revenue.
loosehead wrote:I do know. they work indirectlly to the council more or less the same set up as the hospital cleaners.
southy wrote:Southy I knew you had no clue what you are talking about & now you have confirmed it.The company doesn't run the admin they are a Temps agency & the dustmen?person is employed by them to work on the bins it's exactly what BAT did with Rights thats why as a trainer I couldn't say how bad they were & my own manager had to go through the agency before we could get rid of them. I think the agency was Greenham any way they advertise in the job section of the echo & they begin with G. As for Wapping with all the strikes it was decided that they had to move & break the printing unions stranglehold on the papers so with another Unions help they moved to wapping & my friend works there & has since the beginning he even gave up Rugby to do it .Now answer this you say you are a socialist so surely you want to see as many people in work than out of work don't you? so isn't 250 job losses better than 650 job losses? do you honestly believe if the Unions & opposition parties had put proposals forward besides hitting the banks but sensible ideas on how to save money don't you think with local elections looming the tories would have listened ? they're not politically suicidal so please let us all here from you the FONT of all knowledge exactly what alternative proposal that were put forward?I hope to Christ that the 90% who didn't vote for strike action go to work & cross the picket line or the dole queue is waiting
MGRA wrote:loosehead, let see if I can break this down for you so it easier for you under stand.
I think you are wrong Southy. It says above council "staff" , not council "contracted staff". If you are correct, who has the contract for refuse collection ?
Yes your right it is a company in Totton, not an Agency. The set up is very much like the Hospital Cleaning Staff, you work for the Council but the Admin of it is done by a contractor. If you remember this was set up this way in the late mid 80's under a Thatcher Government, to cut cost but its ended up costing more. Your Empolyed by the Council but not directally. So in reality we are paying extra just for the Admin to be done by an out side contractor.
I see you say a bit about Wapping, if you remember back in 85, the Sun moved out of Fleet Street and because how the new printing was done, Murdoch said he did not need printers any more, and gave there jobs to Eric Hammoun Electricains Union. Which started that long Strike.
To much to correct with that tunnel vision you have, But when it hits you in a big way then maybe you might to under stand what is really going on..
It was the move to wapping that cause the strikes, for Murdoch, the paper own delivery service back up the printers and went out on strike also, and Murdoch bought in a delivery firm. Then came the black lash against Eric Hamound Union, there members was blacklisted on contracts around the country. It brought Eric Hamound to book, at the TUC conference where his Union was broken up and merge with another Union.
They should not **** foot around with the council now, they should go out on strike and stay out, till it is resolved.
Any Council should be saying no to any cuts, and throw that pressure back at the Government, things will not change till they do, the Government should go for Tax Advoidance and Evasion first claim back that £120 Billion a year first, before even thinking about any cuts.
MSK
says...
8:30am Wed 18 May 11
After reading comments from some of the people here, I find it frightening how some have failed to grasp the concept of national debt and the need to resolve the problem. Labour did nothing about it but I hope we're all in agreement on that one.
.
I really wish the age of the union dies out. The dinosaurs with their 'Industrial Revolution' revolution mentality (yes, the old British Empire days were great) have ruined our manufacturing industry beyond repair. British Leyland and British Coal anyone? Look what the unions did to them. While BL was on strike, the Germans and Japanese advanced their automotive industries into the 21st century.
.
An open message to Southy and others like him ...take one look at the children, the younger generations who have the burden of today's debt to pay tomorrow. Look at the world and what does Britain actually produce in the world, which isn't cheaper or better elsewhere.
.
The unions ruined my generation's prospect of a career (I'm 31) and the generations to come. I'm too young to care or remember the arguments between government and unions, but I can see now how they ruin every chance of business.
.
In 2005, I was made redundant from a major private company with 85% union membership. I listened to others and joined the union. When it came to redundancy notice time, they got me a worse deal than I did by negotiating with my employer directly. The union's attitude was militant and annoyed me as a member. The unions have championed on equal pay and conditions, well done.
.
Now it is time to move on and let go, for the sake of the generations to come. The militant attitudes of Southy and others alike achieve nothing and only harm UK plc.
.
To quote Obama, "The world is changing and we need to change with it".
.
I really wish the age of the union dies out. The dinosaurs with their 'Industrial Revolution' revolution mentality (yes, the old British Empire days were great) have ruined our manufacturing industry beyond repair. British Leyland and British Coal anyone? Look what the unions did to them. While BL was on strike, the Germans and Japanese advanced their automotive industries into the 21st century.
.
An open message to Southy and others like him ...take one look at the children, the younger generations who have the burden of today's debt to pay tomorrow. Look at the world and what does Britain actually produce in the world, which isn't cheaper or better elsewhere.
.
The unions ruined my generation's prospect of a career (I'm 31) and the generations to come. I'm too young to care or remember the arguments between government and unions, but I can see now how they ruin every chance of business.
.
In 2005, I was made redundant from a major private company with 85% union membership. I listened to others and joined the union. When it came to redundancy notice time, they got me a worse deal than I did by negotiating with my employer directly. The union's attitude was militant and annoyed me as a member. The unions have championed on equal pay and conditions, well done.
.
Now it is time to move on and let go, for the sake of the generations to come. The militant attitudes of Southy and others alike achieve nothing and only harm UK plc.
.
To quote Obama, "The world is changing and we need to change with it".
loosehead
says...
8:55am Wed 18 May 11
MSK wrote:MSK I have been told I'm a c++t by my own brothers & I should be grateful to the unions & the Labour party for what they've done for the working class man.When I say to them that was in the past & the Labour party is more the party of scroungers & want to be unemployed & anti workers & then explain to them about how they're taxed & how business is taxed the abuse comes flooding in.Now I have asked the left wingers on here to tell me what the sensible ideas were to stop the councils proposals there has been no reply just Southy's ramblings.I lived abroad when I came back I met up with some of the tory councillors & put some ideas to them & these were in Thailand big shops pay the street cleaners & maintain the area & on the cleaning vehicles they have adverts & there are signs telling you that a certain company kept this area cleaned & maintained.So my suggestion was to see if companies were willing to do this the answer was ( from councillors) that business's pay rates ( business) to have this done. well this could be something that the unions & council look into as the companies would get advertising & street cleaners & maintenance crews wages would be paid for securing their jobs & giving the council more money to play with Ideas to save money & secure jobs not political ideology are what's needed.This minority are about to put 400 plus jobs at risk.the MAJORITY never voted for this action yet they will suffer so THANK YOU Mike Tucker & the Unite & Unison unions on getting 400 people plus redundant!
After reading comments from some of the people here, I find it frightening how some have failed to grasp the concept of national debt and the need to resolve the problem. Labour did nothing about it but I hope we're all in agreement on that one.
.
I really wish the age of the union dies out. The dinosaurs with their 'Industrial Revolution' revolution mentality (yes, the old British Empire days were great) have ruined our manufacturing industry beyond repair. British Leyland and British Coal anyone? Look what the unions did to them. While BL was on strike, the Germans and Japanese advanced their automotive industries into the 21st century.
.
An open message to Southy and others like him ...take one look at the children, the younger generations who have the burden of today's debt to pay tomorrow. Look at the world and what does Britain actually produce in the world, which isn't cheaper or better elsewhere.
.
The unions ruined my generation's prospect of a career (I'm 31) and the generations to come. I'm too young to care or remember the arguments between government and unions, but I can see now how they ruin every chance of business.
.
In 2005, I was made redundant from a major private company with 85% union membership. I listened to others and joined the union. When it came to redundancy notice time, they got me a worse deal than I did by negotiating with my employer directly. The union's attitude was militant and annoyed me as a member. The unions have championed on equal pay and conditions, well done.
.
Now it is time to move on and let go, for the sake of the generations to come. The militant attitudes of Southy and others alike achieve nothing and only harm UK plc.
.
To quote Obama, "The world is changing and we need to change with it".
NotConvinced!!
says...
8:58am Wed 18 May 11
Msk maybe unions can withdraw and we can watch a race to the bottom. Victorian workhouses here we come!
Southampton city council is CHOOSING to keep council tax the same (due to receiving a grant from the government to keep it the same). Is CHOOSING to give council tax discounts to special constables and pensioner. Is CHOOSING to cut staff pay and terms and conditions and putting this money into the titanic mueseum and other vanity projects.
This council spends a lot of time, money and effort thinking of ways to spin and kick it's workers. I'm counting down the days to the next local election and when Royston will be kicked out.
Southampton city council is CHOOSING to keep council tax the same (due to receiving a grant from the government to keep it the same). Is CHOOSING to give council tax discounts to special constables and pensioner. Is CHOOSING to cut staff pay and terms and conditions and putting this money into the titanic mueseum and other vanity projects.
This council spends a lot of time, money and effort thinking of ways to spin and kick it's workers. I'm counting down the days to the next local election and when Royston will be kicked out.
loosehead
says...
9:02am Wed 18 May 11
southy wrote:Southy I told you these people are working for the agency the same set up as BAT not the Hospital. the jobs advertised in the job centre & you go to Totton fill out your form & then you can work in Southampton or the New Forest on a three month contract.Get your facts right before you comment & wake up to reality there's many out there who would begrudge you of your pension who don't want to work & would rather steal ,Burgle than do a honest days work & these are the people the left looks after not the workers so wake up & smell the roses
loosehead wrote:I do know. they work indirectlly to the council more or less the same set up as the hospital cleaners.
southy wrote:Southy I knew you had no clue what you are talking about & now you have confirmed it.The company doesn't run the admin they are a Temps agency & the dustmen?person is employed by them to work on the bins it's exactly what BAT did with Rights thats why as a trainer I couldn't say how bad they were & my own manager had to go through the agency before we could get rid of them. I think the agency was Greenham any way they advertise in the job section of the echo & they begin with G. As for Wapping with all the strikes it was decided that they had to move & break the printing unions stranglehold on the papers so with another Unions help they moved to wapping & my friend works there & has since the beginning he even gave up Rugby to do it .Now answer this you say you are a socialist so surely you want to see as many people in work than out of work don't you? so isn't 250 job losses better than 650 job losses? do you honestly believe if the Unions & opposition parties had put proposals forward besides hitting the banks but sensible ideas on how to save money don't you think with local elections looming the tories would have listened ? they're not politically suicidal so please let us all here from you the FONT of all knowledge exactly what alternative proposal that were put forward?I hope to Christ that the 90% who didn't vote for strike action go to work & cross the picket line or the dole queue is waiting
MGRA wrote:loosehead, let see if I can break this down for you so it easier for you under stand.
I think you are wrong Southy. It says above council "staff" , not council "contracted staff". If you are correct, who has the contract for refuse collection ?
Yes your right it is a company in Totton, not an Agency. The set up is very much like the Hospital Cleaning Staff, you work for the Council but the Admin of it is done by a contractor. If you remember this was set up this way in the late mid 80's under a Thatcher Government, to cut cost but its ended up costing more. Your Empolyed by the Council but not directally. So in reality we are paying extra just for the Admin to be done by an out side contractor.
I see you say a bit about Wapping, if you remember back in 85, the Sun moved out of Fleet Street and because how the new printing was done, Murdoch said he did not need printers any more, and gave there jobs to Eric Hammoun Electricains Union. Which started that long Strike.
To much to correct with that tunnel vision you have, But when it hits you in a big way then maybe you might to under stand what is really going on..
It was the move to wapping that cause the strikes, for Murdoch, the paper own delivery service back up the printers and went out on strike also, and Murdoch bought in a delivery firm. Then came the black lash against Eric Hamound Union, there members was blacklisted on contracts around the country. It brought Eric Hamound to book, at the TUC conference where his Union was broken up and merge with another Union.
They should not **** foot around with the council now, they should go out on strike and stay out, till it is resolved.
Any Council should be saying no to any cuts, and throw that pressure back at the Government, things will not change till they do, the Government should go for Tax Advoidance and Evasion first claim back that £120 Billion a year first, before even thinking about any cuts.
loosehead
says...
9:17am Wed 18 May 11
NotConvinced!! wrote:So what we should pay extra council tax to pay for their pay rises when most of the country is in a pay freeze ? It's held it at the same level as the government has put into place penalties for any rise so please tell me are you in favour of people struggling to get enough to pay their mortgages & survive having their council tax go up to levels where they would be paying almost as much as their mortgage in council tax? Not convinced it's been proven time & again that just throwing money at a problem & hoping it goes away doesn't work.since I was young you've got teachers assistants .teachers didn't need assisting when I was at school,Surestart centres & so on .if people want these then savings have to be made so when someone who's on £40,000 a year is bleating on about not getting they're guaranteed 4% pay rise & instead taking a 5.5% cut I find insulting to the people who pay council tax" guaranteed" Personally we should be looking at ourselves as I know a lady who is a council escort she takes disabled & handicapped to & throe from school.she picks up one lad goes walking distance from the home to his school then she sees the mother walk right past the school with her daughter when asked why she didn't take her son to school as well she replied I know my rights & it's owed to me .This is the problem & overmanning in areas of the council & high wages & they need to wake up whilst they still have jobs
Msk maybe unions can withdraw and we can watch a race to the bottom. Victorian workhouses here we come!
Southampton city council is CHOOSING to keep council tax the same (due to receiving a grant from the government to keep it the same). Is CHOOSING to give council tax discounts to special constables and pensioner. Is CHOOSING to cut staff pay and terms and conditions and putting this money into the titanic mueseum and other vanity projects.
This council spends a lot of time, money and effort thinking of ways to spin and kick it's workers. I'm counting down the days to the next local election and when Royston will be kicked out.
MSK
says...
9:27am Wed 18 May 11
NotConvinced!! wrote:Just be careful you don't travel too far from Southampton, you might fall off the end of the world! Can you not see the BIGGER picture?
Msk maybe unions can withdraw and we can watch a race to the bottom. Victorian workhouses here we come! Southampton city council is CHOOSING to keep council tax the same (due to receiving a grant from the government to keep it the same). Is CHOOSING to give council tax discounts to special constables and pensioner. Is CHOOSING to cut staff pay and terms and conditions and putting this money into the titanic mueseum and other vanity projects. This council spends a lot of time, money and effort thinking of ways to spin and kick it's workers. I'm counting down the days to the next local election and when Royston will be kicked out.
.
Britain doesn't have any money and is borrowing from the IMF and World Bank. Our debt is calculated with interest based on our credit rating by S&P and Moody's. We currently have a AAA rating based on the nation's ability to pay back the debt and how quickly - it's no different to personal debt on a credit card. If we slow or reduce our payments, our credit rating will slip. The consequences of that don't even bear thinking about. If intrigued, Google it!
.
Before Britain can pay off the debt, it must first stop borrowing. Therefore cuts are unavoidable and the last Labour government buried their heads in the sand, hoping it would go away.
.
What is your alternative to the cuts? Any better ideas? Loosehead has come up with a good one and even took the liberty to suggest it to the council. Well done Loosehead!
.
So rather than moan about the problem, come up with solutions and propose them instead of the cuts.
.
My idea is to fully sub-contract the work to a private company, with workers on minimum wage. The cost will then be controllable and managable for the council. By accepting a tender below the current cost of operating a bin collection service. The private sector has to be competitive, councils do not - hence a saving.
MSK
says...
9:27am Wed 18 May 11
Just be careful you don't travel too far from Southampton, you might fall off the end of the world! Can you not see the BIGGER picture?
.
Britain doesn't have any money and is borrowing from the IMF and World Bank. Our debt is calculated with interest based on our credit rating by S&P and Moody's. We currently have a AAA rating based on the nation's ability to pay back the debt and how quickly - it's no different to personal debt on a credit card. If we slow or reduce our payments, our credit rating will slip. The consequences of that don't even bear thinking about. If intrigued, Google it!
.
Before Britain can pay off the debt, it must first stop borrowing. Therefore cuts are unavoidable and the last Labour government buried their heads in the sand, hoping it would go away.
.
What is your alternative to the cuts? Any better ideas? Loosehead has come up with a good one and even took the liberty to suggest it to the council. Well done Loosehead!
.
So rather than moan about the problem, come up with solutions and propose them instead of the cuts.
.
My idea is to fully sub-contract the work to a private company, with workers on minimum wage. The cost will then be controllable and managable for the council. By accepting a tender below the current cost of operating a bin collection service. The private sector has to be competitive, councils do not - hence a saving.
.
Britain doesn't have any money and is borrowing from the IMF and World Bank. Our debt is calculated with interest based on our credit rating by S&P and Moody's. We currently have a AAA rating based on the nation's ability to pay back the debt and how quickly - it's no different to personal debt on a credit card. If we slow or reduce our payments, our credit rating will slip. The consequences of that don't even bear thinking about. If intrigued, Google it!
.
Before Britain can pay off the debt, it must first stop borrowing. Therefore cuts are unavoidable and the last Labour government buried their heads in the sand, hoping it would go away.
.
What is your alternative to the cuts? Any better ideas? Loosehead has come up with a good one and even took the liberty to suggest it to the council. Well done Loosehead!
.
So rather than moan about the problem, come up with solutions and propose them instead of the cuts.
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My idea is to fully sub-contract the work to a private company, with workers on minimum wage. The cost will then be controllable and managable for the council. By accepting a tender below the current cost of operating a bin collection service. The private sector has to be competitive, councils do not - hence a saving.
dustybin123
says...
9:27am Wed 18 May 11
OK everyone a reality check (especially for southy).
About 120 refuse collectors and drivers are directly employed by SCC. To cover holidays etc, some agency personel are used to cover for drivers and loaders.
All the admin personel etc are also directly employed by SCC.
There are NOT 180 collectors, and crews can be made up of two or three persons (one driver and one or two loaders).
There are 22 bin rounds (wheelie bins and bulk bins), and four trade rounds, the others crew green waste rounds, spec ref, and voids.
Also 'the tip' - I presume you mean the HWRC (Household Waste Recycling Centre) in Endle St?, this isn't run by Veolia (they run the Marchwood incinerator, and waste transfer stations in Portsmouth Rd, Otterbourne etc) it's run by a private company called Hopkins Recycling Ltd, and not staffed by SCC employees so will be open as normal.
About 120 refuse collectors and drivers are directly employed by SCC. To cover holidays etc, some agency personel are used to cover for drivers and loaders.
All the admin personel etc are also directly employed by SCC.
There are NOT 180 collectors, and crews can be made up of two or three persons (one driver and one or two loaders).
There are 22 bin rounds (wheelie bins and bulk bins), and four trade rounds, the others crew green waste rounds, spec ref, and voids.
Also 'the tip' - I presume you mean the HWRC (Household Waste Recycling Centre) in Endle St?, this isn't run by Veolia (they run the Marchwood incinerator, and waste transfer stations in Portsmouth Rd, Otterbourne etc) it's run by a private company called Hopkins Recycling Ltd, and not staffed by SCC employees so will be open as normal.
LoguieBear2009
says...
10:08am Wed 18 May 11
i think everyone should lay off the refuse crew they work very hard and have to put up with alot off residents of southampton most people wouldnt last a week in that job
i fully support them!!
i fully support them!!
Shoong
says...
10:09am Wed 18 May 11
Fire the bloomin' lot. When are these Unions going to wake up from the dream world they stumble around in?
No more blackmail.
Down with the Unions.
No more blackmail.
Down with the Unions.
NotConvinced!!
says...
10:11am Wed 18 May 11
You very elegantly ignored my point about the titanic museum and other vanity projects. Southampton City Council has a budget. It is CHOOSING how it spends that budget in this city. Staff pay cuts are being used to pay for posh new buildings!
How would it sit with you being marched into one guildhall square to be told "we have no money sorry you're going to have to go" in a multi million pound luxury building?
How would it sit with you being marched into one guildhall square to be told "we have no money sorry you're going to have to go" in a multi million pound luxury building?
MSK
says...
10:31am Wed 18 May 11
I ignored the comment because...
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Source: SCC website:
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"Since March 2009 the Heritage Lottery Fund (HLF) has awarded the council a total of £4.9 million towards the £15m museum. Southampton Cultural Development Trust has been formed as a Company limited by Guarantee to raise funding towards the costs of the project."
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The Southampton Cultural Development Trust is a seperate entity from the council.
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So what has the Titanic museum, which will attract visitors to Southampton and help the local economy, got to do with government public spending cuts?
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Source: SCC website:
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"Since March 2009 the Heritage Lottery Fund (HLF) has awarded the council a total of £4.9 million towards the £15m museum. Southampton Cultural Development Trust has been formed as a Company limited by Guarantee to raise funding towards the costs of the project."
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The Southampton Cultural Development Trust is a seperate entity from the council.
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So what has the Titanic museum, which will attract visitors to Southampton and help the local economy, got to do with government public spending cuts?
NotConvinced!!
says...
10:39am Wed 18 May 11
That's the point I'm making. Government public seeding cuts is one issue, how this council CHOOSE to spend it's budget is another.
Choosing to spend money on buildings that celebrate a faulty ship while you're living breathing staff are drowning is obscene. Just because HLF has put some money towards it, doesn't justify how our Council has CHOSEN to make up the rest (while pleading poverty).
Choosing to spend money on buildings that celebrate a faulty ship while you're living breathing staff are drowning is obscene. Just because HLF has put some money towards it, doesn't justify how our Council has CHOSEN to make up the rest (while pleading poverty).
Lone Ranger.
says...
11:00am Wed 18 May 11
Shoong wrote:I must have it wrong.
Fire the bloomin' lot. When are these Unions going to wake up from the dream world they stumble around in?
No more blackmail.
Down with the Unions.
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Because i thought SCC were saying sign a new contract with lower pay and rights or you could lose your job.And when you do sign it we still wont guarantee your job
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Blackmail... !!!!
TheJeepster
says...
11:07am Wed 18 May 11
As we stumble inevitably from Recession into full blown depression don't for one moment imagine that the private sector will be able to take up the slack of lost public sector jobs.
Have you seen today's "unexpected" unemployment numbers?
As a nation we pay as much for the unemployed as we do to keep someone in a job, so all we are doing is deferring one years costs for public services to another year and another pot when the bill for the newly unemployed will be totted up and we find the deficit is no smaller than it is now.
What happens when the council culls are complete and balance is lost?
I guess we will end up with a truer picture of how the Private Sector will be able to run our services when exposed to real competition ALL of the time.
If you don't do the job well enough and at a reasonable cost, you will lose your council contracts to the next Flash Harry who idly boasts that he can do the job far better and for less, without actually appreciating how the council ties you up with red tape if you are "lucky" enough to win a contract at all.
What then will happen to your employees, will you lay them off or cut their pay and will they be any happier about it than the Council Staff are now about having their conditions and pay driven down?
What a slippery slope we are on.
As for existing Private Sector contractors, already employed by our council's...be afraid.
Where do you imagine the Government will be looking to save money once they have finished savaging our services?
You are next and you had better be ready to do more for less.
We are all in this together and you will be asked to pay!
Getting what we wish for is sometimes not what it seems!
Have you seen today's "unexpected" unemployment numbers?
As a nation we pay as much for the unemployed as we do to keep someone in a job, so all we are doing is deferring one years costs for public services to another year and another pot when the bill for the newly unemployed will be totted up and we find the deficit is no smaller than it is now.
What happens when the council culls are complete and balance is lost?
I guess we will end up with a truer picture of how the Private Sector will be able to run our services when exposed to real competition ALL of the time.
If you don't do the job well enough and at a reasonable cost, you will lose your council contracts to the next Flash Harry who idly boasts that he can do the job far better and for less, without actually appreciating how the council ties you up with red tape if you are "lucky" enough to win a contract at all.
What then will happen to your employees, will you lay them off or cut their pay and will they be any happier about it than the Council Staff are now about having their conditions and pay driven down?
What a slippery slope we are on.
As for existing Private Sector contractors, already employed by our council's...be afraid.
Where do you imagine the Government will be looking to save money once they have finished savaging our services?
You are next and you had better be ready to do more for less.
We are all in this together and you will be asked to pay!
Getting what we wish for is sometimes not what it seems!
Shoong
says...
11:32am Wed 18 May 11
Lone Ranger. wrote:No, it's a chance to keep your job in difficult financial times. The public sector cannot be immune. They are not special.
Shoong wrote:I must have it wrong.
Fire the bloomin' lot. When are these Unions going to wake up from the dream world they stumble around in?
No more blackmail.
Down with the Unions.
.
Because i thought SCC were saying sign a new contract with lower pay and rights or you could lose your job.And when you do sign it we still wont guarantee your job
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Blackmail... !!!!
Sign up or do one. There's someone else who needs a job to provide for his family that I'm sure is willing.
loosehead
says...
12:34pm Wed 18 May 11
NotConvinced!! wrote:I personally don't agree with the carbuncle that's been built but as msk russia has explained that not penny of the councils money has paid for it there's a separate company raising funds & a contribution from HLF so that argument doesn't hold water.They wanted to build on King Canutes Palace & the vaults at the bottom of town ( Lindens) which I opposed as we should be attracting tourist to see these buildings & bring jobs to the city so there's £10million gone & as I've said before instead of berating the council you should start having a go at the Liberals as this council set it's self up to no cut in the budget but the Liberals ( gov) couldn't accept the axe falling just on the high spending councils of the North so the south got hit again after year upon year of Labour taking monies from the southern counties to give to the North ( you know Labours heartland) most buildings were complete before the cuts were made so that can't be used in argument .the only argument is is it 650 or 250 job losses & what alternatives have the unions put forward ? besides hitting the banks we already own so we would be hitting ourselves & making the chances of selling them & getting our money back nearly impossible. If you want a peep into reality look at Greece & Ireland
That's the point I'm making. Government public seeding cuts is one issue, how this council CHOOSE to spend it's budget is another.
Choosing to spend money on buildings that celebrate a faulty ship while you're living breathing staff are drowning is obscene. Just because HLF has put some money towards it, doesn't justify how our Council has CHOSEN to make up the rest (while pleading poverty).
NotConvinced!!
says...
1:08pm Wed 18 May 11
That's not true have a look at the council meeting agendas where millions have been transferred to the capital budget.
This is all a PR stunt for Royston Smiths political career. Like a loyal but overexcited Labrador humping it's masters leg, Royston is saying to Cameron "look at me Dave I can stitch up the entire workforce and spin it so it looks like their fault. Make me an MP pwwwweeeaaaassseee!" It's your council tax and your services he's gambling with for his own gain. Staff & Citizens of Southampton are the collateral damage of his ambitious game.
This is all a PR stunt for Royston Smiths political career. Like a loyal but overexcited Labrador humping it's masters leg, Royston is saying to Cameron "look at me Dave I can stitch up the entire workforce and spin it so it looks like their fault. Make me an MP pwwwweeeaaaassseee!" It's your council tax and your services he's gambling with for his own gain. Staff & Citizens of Southampton are the collateral damage of his ambitious game.
MSK
says...
1:26pm Wed 18 May 11
Or perhaps Royston Smith might be looking at safe investment opportunities, in Southampton which will create local jobs and be a boost to a city which is currently an eyesore.
NotConvinced!!
says...
2:36pm Wed 18 May 11
No I think the humping leg analogy in far more accurate.
As is the whole concept of the titanic museum. The upper classes got the lifeboats while the working classes sank with the ship.
As is the whole concept of the titanic museum. The upper classes got the lifeboats while the working classes sank with the ship.
stay local
says...
3:28pm Wed 18 May 11
southy wrote:I take it then, as I have from a spokesperson for the TUSC, that you will be supporting the pay cuts for the public sector to bring them into line with the private sector and pay rises for the managers in the public sector to restore the equality with the private sector, or does that sort of equality and fairness not fit?
stay local wrote:The TUSC will be supporting them, and if the private sector workers don't want to join a Union then that is there lost, if they joined a Union then there bosses would not be able to walk over them so easy and would be force to the table to talk, remember you are weak if standing alone, but together you will achive some thing.
Come on Southy will the TUSC be protesting at inequalities of pay between the public and private sector, will they demand parity and the end of fat cats?
Where is the spokesman for equality?
The TUSC are the spokesman for equality and fairness. they are the only ones willing to do this.
Just look for the numerous news reports that confirm this pay differential (the guardian, The mail , the mirror, people management.co , uk government statistical office, local government .co.uk, this is London, working mums.co.uk , public service .co.uk, etc) all report that public sector pay outstrips the private sector. Will you and your cronies be turning a blind eye to this????
Shoong
says...
4:50pm Wed 18 May 11
stay local wrote:Didn't you know the press in run by a Right Wing conspiracy?
southy wrote:I take it then, as I have from a spokesperson for the TUSC, that you will be supporting the pay cuts for the public sector to bring them into line with the private sector and pay rises for the managers in the public sector to restore the equality with the private sector, or does that sort of equality and fairness not fit?
stay local wrote:The TUSC will be supporting them, and if the private sector workers don't want to join a Union then that is there lost, if they joined a Union then there bosses would not be able to walk over them so easy and would be force to the table to talk, remember you are weak if standing alone, but together you will achive some thing.
Come on Southy will the TUSC be protesting at inequalities of pay between the public and private sector, will they demand parity and the end of fat cats?
Where is the spokesman for equality?
The TUSC are the spokesman for equality and fairness. they are the only ones willing to do this.
Just look for the numerous news reports that confirm this pay differential (the guardian, The mail , the mirror, people management.co , uk government statistical office, local government .co.uk, this is London, working mums.co.uk , public service .co.uk, etc) all report that public sector pay outstrips the private sector. Will you and your cronies be turning a blind eye to this????
Has thou not been paying attention to the loony leftie?
loosehead
says...
7:05pm Wed 18 May 11
NotConvinced!! wrote:I don't agree with the carbuncle but what's the hang up with the Titanic? Answer the question who was it that took millions from the Southern counties tio give to the North? If you looked at it properly this council cut it's cloth & expected no cuts but in the age of trying to be fair the council has been put in an impossible position & unless the Unions can come up with a real alternative the choice is still 250 or 650 I know that to keep jobs I would opt for the 250 so to say that a man who's just saved lives is humping the leg of another I think you should be looking at Mike Tuckers attempt to rise up the unions ranks as Royston stood for parliament it's not like he's been hiding his aspirations not like Mike Tucker
No I think the humping leg analogy in far more accurate.
As is the whole concept of the titanic museum. The upper classes got the lifeboats while the working classes sank with the ship.
NotConvinced!!
says...
8:22pm Wed 18 May 11
loosehead wrote:Who gave money to the north? Irrelevant- Southampton city council has a budget to spend. For fear of repeating myself it is choosing to spend it in a certain way. It is choosing to spend on glam vanity projects at the expense of it's workers.
NotConvinced!! wrote:I don't agree with the carbuncle but what's the hang up with the Titanic? Answer the question who was it that took millions from the Southern counties tio give to the North? If you looked at it properly this council cut it's cloth & expected no cuts but in the age of trying to be fair the council has been put in an impossible position & unless the Unions can come up with a real alternative the choice is still 250 or 650 I know that to keep jobs I would opt for the 250 so to say that a man who's just saved lives is humping the leg of another I think you should be looking at Mike Tuckers attempt to rise up the unions ranks as Royston stood for parliament it's not like he's been hiding his aspirations not like Mike Tucker
No I think the humping leg analogy in far more accurate.
As is the whole concept of the titanic museum. The upper classes got the lifeboats while the working classes sank with the ship.
The real alternatives have been repeated and repeated but fall on deaf ears. Look at council tax for sspecial constables & well off pensioners. Stop frittering money on white elephants. Use the council reserves. I wouldn't know what mike tuckers 'attempt' to rise up the union ranks was as it wasn't plastered into echo or all over council pr unlike Roystons attempts at courting favour with dave.
loosehead
says...
9:34pm Wed 18 May 11
Mate it was the Labour government that gave Southern Money to the North.As for specials not paying council tax that was blocked by the police & when you take hay amount & the so called well off pensioners discount it doesn't add up to a lot of money as for the white elephant you've had it explained time & time again that this money hasn't come from the council & the other posts have explained exactly where it's come from.As for the reserves please get it into your head all councils no matter how much they would like to have to have a reserve & by law they can't spend it.As for Royston doing a PR stunt I think you're an idiot saying that & shows total disdain to the man who got killed & no matter what if I was faced by a man ( trained) with a gun & he had just killed someone & tried to kill more I would run.A PR stunt is something that's staged are you saying that they staged having a man shot & killed to help Roystons political career?Maybe if this Tory council hadn't built the first council homes for years they could have saved money.these projects were all planned & implemented way before the cuts were announced.I feel an illuminouse ( Hologram) advertising screen(s) put into the walls of the carbuncle would bring in revenue for this building it's what they do abroad! that's a realistic idea, Now to Mike Tucker if he's not trying to make a name for himself why is he calling for strike action that was only voted for by 10% of the workforce to get 650 not 250 people unemployed? it's the high earners who will benefit not the ones below £17,500 as they are getting a pay rise so surely they can't be striking to protect people who normally couldn't give a dam for them could they? I'm on double your wages please strike for me so that it's more likely you lose your jobs but I keep my high wages ,sounds a bit crazy doesn't it? but that's exactly what Mike Tuckers asking so What's in it for him?
NotConvinced!!
says...
10:03pm Wed 18 May 11
loosehead wrote:Ramblings!
Mate it was the Labour government that gave Southern Money to the North.As for specials not paying council tax that was blocked by the police & when you take hay amount & the so called well off pensioners discount it doesn't add up to a lot of money as for the white elephant you've had it explained time & time again that this money hasn't come from the council & the other posts have explained exactly where it's come from.As for the reserves please get it into your head all councils no matter how much they would like to have to have a reserve & by law they can't spend it.As for Royston doing a PR stunt I think you're an idiot saying that & shows total disdain to the man who got killed & no matter what if I was faced by a man ( trained) with a gun & he had just killed someone & tried to kill more I would run.A PR stunt is something that's staged are you saying that they staged having a man shot & killed to help Roystons political career?Maybe if this Tory council hadn't built the first council homes for years they could have saved money.these projects were all planned & implemented way before the cuts were announced.I feel an illuminouse ( Hologram) advertising screen(s) put into the walls of the carbuncle would bring in revenue for this building it's what they do abroad! that's a realistic idea, Now to Mike Tucker if he's not trying to make a name for himself why is he calling for strike action that was only voted for by 10% of the workforce to get 650 not 250 people unemployed? it's the high earners who will benefit not the ones below £17,500 as they are getting a pay rise so surely they can't be striking to protect people who normally couldn't give a dam for them could they? I'm on double your wages please strike for me so that it's more likely you lose your jobs but I keep my high wages ,sounds a bit crazy doesn't it? but that's exactly what Mike Tuckers asking so What's in it for him?
NotConvinced!!
says...
10:10pm Wed 18 May 11
Hard to know where to start.... I think your trying to distract from the issue. I have not mentioned the incident on the submarine.
The issue is- Southampton city council have a set budget and have decided how it's spent. Buildings and glam rather than services and staff.
The union ballot turnout was higher than that which got Royston into power. If there is no appetite for strike - people won't do it will they?
The issue is- Southampton city council have a set budget and have decided how it's spent. Buildings and glam rather than services and staff.
The union ballot turnout was higher than that which got Royston into power. If there is no appetite for strike - people won't do it will they?
MSK
says...
7:05am Thu 19 May 11
Actually, after thinking about this. I say, go ahead and strike.
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The strike action will make no difference, the general public don't support those striking, so SCC will probably sack 650 employees instead of 250 - lets hope the extra 400 were those striking and not those crossing the picket line.
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Oh, and can the last person in Britain please switch the lights off before they leave - thanks.
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The strike action will make no difference, the general public don't support those striking, so SCC will probably sack 650 employees instead of 250 - lets hope the extra 400 were those striking and not those crossing the picket line.
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Oh, and can the last person in Britain please switch the lights off before they leave - thanks.
NotConvinced!!
says...
8:14am Thu 19 May 11
MSK wrote:Those striking don't need your permission, who do you think you are?
Actually, after thinking about this. I say, go ahead and strike.
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The strike action will make no difference, the general public don't support those striking, so SCC will probably sack 650 employees instead of 250 - lets hope the extra 400 were those striking and not those crossing the picket line.
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Oh, and can the last person in Britain please switch the lights off before they leave - thanks.
They are standing up for a principal. I admire them and thank them for having the guts to put themselves on the line to protect terms and conditions. I want my children and future generations to have decent t&c's. The way you all talk on here you forget about Victorian workhouses if the past and that there are more billionaires than ever in the present. The Council has the money, it doesn't want to avert the strike. it wants to siphon on money from staff to funnel into vanity projects, like one guildhall square and the titanic museum.
MSK
says...
8:42am Thu 19 May 11
NotConvinced you've misread my post.
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I am supporting the strike action now. You've actually convinced me that we'll never be able to get rid of the union 'dinosaurs', the ones who killed off our manufacturing & mining industry. The union didn't do very well in the BA saga did it, neither did they help me and my ex-colleagues when we were made redundant in 2005. In fact, they made things worse.
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These 'dinosaurs' need to die out/retire, so that dynamic and forward thinking people can lead the UK out of the recession, through the digital age and keep the industrial revolution and ideas of Victorian workhouses in museums, which the council are creating.
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Btw, please share the link, where you read SCC is funding the 'vanity' projects!? I am interested to read about this.
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As someone who grew up in Southampton, I'm proud to see 1 Guildhall Square and the Titanic Museum being built. It will be the first time I can say, Southampton has something worthwhile.
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I am supporting the strike action now. You've actually convinced me that we'll never be able to get rid of the union 'dinosaurs', the ones who killed off our manufacturing & mining industry. The union didn't do very well in the BA saga did it, neither did they help me and my ex-colleagues when we were made redundant in 2005. In fact, they made things worse.
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These 'dinosaurs' need to die out/retire, so that dynamic and forward thinking people can lead the UK out of the recession, through the digital age and keep the industrial revolution and ideas of Victorian workhouses in museums, which the council are creating.
.
Btw, please share the link, where you read SCC is funding the 'vanity' projects!? I am interested to read about this.
.
As someone who grew up in Southampton, I'm proud to see 1 Guildhall Square and the Titanic Museum being built. It will be the first time I can say, Southampton has something worthwhile.
loosehead
says...
9:13am Thu 19 May 11
You kept on about Roystons pr so what pr? As for the unions why didn't they explain to the workforce at BAT that going on strike for 50p a week was suicide? the militants stirred the pot said they won't shut us down so the rest followed & hey presto no more manufacturing as they got it wrong so what terms & conditions if you have no job? I try to put forward suggestions so that the council can either save or earn money.So here's one with all the bland buildings with no history just glass & concrete why no do as most big cities do & have Plasma or similar advertising on the outside bringing in revenue.Prime city sites the companies would be queuing up to use them.You see these are far more constructive ideas to bring in revenue to avert the actions the council are faced with than the Unions telling a local council to hit the banks & the tax dodgers?
NotConvinced!!
says...
9:49am Thu 19 May 11
loosehead wrote:Looking at council tax in the city is a very viable option! As is looking to spend council reserves on wage not capital buildings. It's about choice on what the council spend. Commenting and discussing every industrial dispute in history isn't relevant to this industrial action in this dispute. The council has the money.
You kept on about Roystons pr so what pr? As for the unions why didn't they explain to the workforce at BAT that going on strike for 50p a week was suicide? the militants stirred the pot said they won't shut us down so the rest followed & hey presto no more manufacturing as they got it wrong so what terms & conditions if you have no job? I try to put forward suggestions so that the council can either save or earn money.So here's one with all the bland buildings with no history just glass & concrete why no do as most big cities do & have Plasma or similar advertising on the outside bringing in revenue.Prime city sites the companies would be queuing up to use them.You see these are far more constructive ideas to bring in revenue to avert the actions the council are faced with than the Unions telling a local council to hit the banks & the tax dodgers?
Everyones entitled to their opinion, plasma screens may able to you but not everyone.
NotConvinced!!
says...
9:57am Thu 19 May 11
MSK wrote:I've already said look at the council meeting minutes- online, to see money going into the capital budget from the revenue.
NotConvinced you've misread my post.
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I am supporting the strike action now. You've actually convinced me that we'll never be able to get rid of the union 'dinosaurs', the ones who killed off our manufacturing & mining industry. The union didn't do very well in the BA saga did it, neither did they help me and my ex-colleagues when we were made redundant in 2005. In fact, they made things worse.
.
These 'dinosaurs' need to die out/retire, so that dynamic and forward thinking people can lead the UK out of the recession, through the digital age and keep the industrial revolution and ideas of Victorian workhouses in museums, which the council are creating.
.
Btw, please share the link, where you read SCC is funding the 'vanity' projects!? I am interested to read about this.
.
As someone who grew up in Southampton, I'm proud to see 1 Guildhall Square and the Titanic Museum being built. It will be the first time I can say, Southampton has something worthwhile.
I also grew up in Southampton and I want services not White elephant projects and buildings.
For fear of repeating and repeating.. forget every industrial dispute in history. Look at this councils chosen actions and this industrial dispute.
MSK
says...
9:58am Thu 19 May 11
NotConvinced, you haven't shared the information which clearly states the council are financing 'vanity' building projects in Southampton. Why not? Please share with us (if you can).
NotConvinced!!
says...
10:03am Thu 19 May 11
loosehead wrote:PR - Did you miss Roystons newletter which came though the door with a picture of the student riots in London - claiming it was Southampton and militant unions? LIAR!
You kept on about Roystons pr so what pr? As for the unions why didn't they explain to the workforce at BAT that going on strike for 50p a week was suicide? the militants stirred the pot said they won't shut us down so the rest followed & hey presto no more manufacturing as they got it wrong so what terms & conditions if you have no job? I try to put forward suggestions so that the council can either save or earn money.So here's one with all the bland buildings with no history just glass & concrete why no do as most big cities do & have Plasma or similar advertising on the outside bringing in revenue.Prime city sites the companies would be queuing up to use them.You see these are far more constructive ideas to bring in revenue to avert the actions the council are faced with than the Unions telling a local council to hit the banks & the tax dodgers?
He's refused to apologise for this lie.
This man and this council spend a lot of money on spin and thinking if ways to give their staff a kicking. It won't wash with the electorate and well see when hes up for election which I think is 2014. He's out! No other council leader is as self promoting as him.Southampton, Staff and services are collateral damage in his bid for parliament.
NotConvinced!!
says...
10:09am Thu 19 May 11
MSK wrote:Click on www.Southampton.gov.
NotConvinced, you haven't shared the information which clearly states the council are financing 'vanity' building projects in Southampton. Why not? Please share with us (if you can).
uk
Look at the council meeting minutes.....*sigh* .... and look at the budgets.
Money moving from revenue into capital. That's staff budget to building budget.
MSK
says...
10:27am Thu 19 May 11
That's standard business practice for revenue to move into capital a budget.
What I struggle to find (and what others seem to question) is, "SCC are paying £12m for building project in Southampton".
Where does it *clearly* state this? Or is it just your perception that the council are paying for these projects?
What I struggle to find (and what others seem to question) is, "SCC are paying £12m for building project in Southampton".
Where does it *clearly* state this? Or is it just your perception that the council are paying for these projects?
NotConvinced!!
says...
10:50am Thu 19 May 11
MSK wrote:That quote didn't come from me you'd have to ask that person.
That's standard business practice for revenue to move into capital a budget. What I struggle to find (and what others seem to question) is, "SCC are paying £12m for building project in Southampton". Where does it *clearly* state this? Or is it just your perception that the council are paying for these projects?
That money moved at around the same time the pay cuts were announced.
loosehead
says...
12:21pm Thu 19 May 11
NotConvinced!! wrote:Look at the council tax are you an idiot? Why not look at neighbouring authorities instead? fortnightly bin collections meaning you only need half the bin men & Lorry's so saving on wages there! charge for people parking outside their own homes ( Labour"s doing it & this Labour party proposed it) Then think back when the letters page & these posts were all about how people especially the old were going to pay for their council tax with the hefty rises proposed by Labour,We must find a way of making the services more affordable & make the public do more ( like look after the old ) instead of having it all done for them & expecting Council Tax payers to pay for it.Socialism is suppose to be about a caring society where we all look out for each other that's not what Labour gave us it's a gimme,gimme society Look at the £40,000 earners at the council "make 400 more redundant & not cut my pay by 5.5% but I want my guaranteed 4% pay rise" That's what you agree with is it? You expect every one to pay more council tax for these people many who don't even live in the city.Get real the private sector isn't getting pay rises & in many cases are taking pay cuts yet you expect them to pay more council tax to look after these people in their Ivory towers? I think it's you who's lost the plot & got it so wrong!
loosehead wrote:Looking at council tax in the city is a very viable option! As is looking to spend council reserves on wage not capital buildings. It's about choice on what the council spend. Commenting and discussing every industrial dispute in history isn't relevant to this industrial action in this dispute. The council has the money.
You kept on about Roystons pr so what pr? As for the unions why didn't they explain to the workforce at BAT that going on strike for 50p a week was suicide? the militants stirred the pot said they won't shut us down so the rest followed & hey presto no more manufacturing as they got it wrong so what terms & conditions if you have no job? I try to put forward suggestions so that the council can either save or earn money.So here's one with all the bland buildings with no history just glass & concrete why no do as most big cities do & have Plasma or similar advertising on the outside bringing in revenue.Prime city sites the companies would be queuing up to use them.You see these are far more constructive ideas to bring in revenue to avert the actions the council are faced with than the Unions telling a local council to hit the banks & the tax dodgers?
Everyones entitled to their opinion, plasma screens may able to you but not everyone.
NotConvinced!!
says...
12:42pm Thu 19 May 11
loosehead wrote:All entitled to our opinions, you've totally misread what I said & ignored others.
NotConvinced!! wrote:Look at the council tax are you an idiot? Why not look at neighbouring authorities instead? fortnightly bin collections meaning you only need half the bin men & Lorry's so saving on wages there! charge for people parking outside their own homes ( Labour"s doing it & this Labour party proposed it) Then think back when the letters page & these posts were all about how people especially the old were going to pay for their council tax with the hefty rises proposed by Labour,We must find a way of making the services more affordable & make the public do more ( like look after the old ) instead of having it all done for them & expecting Council Tax payers to pay for it.Socialism is suppose to be about a caring society where we all look out for each other that's not what Labour gave us it's a gimme,gimme society Look at the £40,000 earners at the council "make 400 more redundant & not cut my pay by 5.5% but I want my guaranteed 4% pay rise" That's what you agree with is it? You expect every one to pay more council tax for these people many who don't even live in the city.Get real the private sector isn't getting pay rises & in many cases are taking pay cuts yet you expect them to pay more council tax to look after these people in their Ivory towers? I think it's you who's lost the plot & got it so wrong!loosehead wrote: You kept on about Roystons pr so what pr? As for the unions why didn't they explain to the workforce at BAT that going on strike for 50p a week was suicide? the militants stirred the pot said they won't shut us down so the rest followed & hey presto no more manufacturing as they got it wrong so what terms & conditions if you have no job? I try to put forward suggestions so that the council can either save or earn money.So here's one with all the bland buildings with no history just glass & concrete why no do as most big cities do & have Plasma or similar advertising on the outside bringing in revenue.Prime city sites the companies would be queuing up to use them.You see these are far more constructive ideas to bring in revenue to avert the actions the council are faced with than the Unions telling a local council to hit the banks & the tax dodgers?Looking at council tax in the city is a very viable option! As is looking to spend council reserves on wage not capital buildings. It's about choice on what the council spend. Commenting and discussing every industrial dispute in history isn't relevant to this industrial action in this dispute. The council has the money. Everyones entitled to their opinion, plasma screens may able to you but not everyone.
loosehead
says...
4:04pm Thu 19 May 11
NotConvinced!! wrote:You said look at council tax & I said what I felt about that. I have also said that if you looked into it all councils have to have a reserve by law but you keep banging on about the council spending the reserve & going on about the council speeding tax payers money on projects ( white elephants) which you've been asked by several people to prove you haven't nor have you answered the question why is Mike Tucker & the other union leading men on strike to safeguard the wages of high earners & put another 400 on the dole? the reason i mentioned BAT is because you wen't on about Terms & conditions 7 my point was that isn't going to matter to the extra 400 who lose their jobs if the union gets it's way.I try to put ways of earning revenue so there's no need for as many as 250 made redundant but you can't see that these poor lower paid workers are being led like lambs to the slaughter so that the people on £25,000-£40,000 don't get a pay cut & if you'd read all the posts I think you'd then find out that they also want a 4% pay rise so please open your eyes or take your left wing blinkers off & see reality.I totally agree that the carbuncle on the side of the city shouldn't have been built but I have no objections to a Sea ( Titanic) museum being built closer to the docks.But once again were's the proof that our money was spent on it? as for the art you can thank the left wing ( Southy) & the art lovers for that ( three paintings) not being sold now or in the future no matter how many jobs it would/could have saved.please research these things before you come on here having a go at the council when on some subjects their hands are tied.Maybe they should up the rent on the Mosque to a true reflection of rentable land in that area what do you think?
loosehead wrote:All entitled to our opinions, you've totally misread what I said & ignored others.
NotConvinced!! wrote:Look at the council tax are you an idiot? Why not look at neighbouring authorities instead? fortnightly bin collections meaning you only need half the bin men & Lorry's so saving on wages there! charge for people parking outside their own homes ( Labour"s doing it & this Labour party proposed it) Then think back when the letters page & these posts were all about how people especially the old were going to pay for their council tax with the hefty rises proposed by Labour,We must find a way of making the services more affordable & make the public do more ( like look after the old ) instead of having it all done for them & expecting Council Tax payers to pay for it.Socialism is suppose to be about a caring society where we all look out for each other that's not what Labour gave us it's a gimme,gimme society Look at the £40,000 earners at the council "make 400 more redundant & not cut my pay by 5.5% but I want my guaranteed 4% pay rise" That's what you agree with is it? You expect every one to pay more council tax for these people many who don't even live in the city.Get real the private sector isn't getting pay rises & in many cases are taking pay cuts yet you expect them to pay more council tax to look after these people in their Ivory towers? I think it's you who's lost the plot & got it so wrong!loosehead wrote: You kept on about Roystons pr so what pr? As for the unions why didn't they explain to the workforce at BAT that going on strike for 50p a week was suicide? the militants stirred the pot said they won't shut us down so the rest followed & hey presto no more manufacturing as they got it wrong so what terms & conditions if you have no job? I try to put forward suggestions so that the council can either save or earn money.So here's one with all the bland buildings with no history just glass & concrete why no do as most big cities do & have Plasma or similar advertising on the outside bringing in revenue.Prime city sites the companies would be queuing up to use them.You see these are far more constructive ideas to bring in revenue to avert the actions the council are faced with than the Unions telling a local council to hit the banks & the tax dodgers?Looking at council tax in the city is a very viable option! As is looking to spend council reserves on wage not capital buildings. It's about choice on what the council spend. Commenting and discussing every industrial dispute in history isn't relevant to this industrial action in this dispute. The council has the money. Everyones entitled to their opinion, plasma screens may able to you but not everyone.
NotConvinced!!
says...
9:56pm Thu 19 May 11
http://www.southampt
on.gov.uk/moderngov/
ieIssueDetails.aspx?
IId=3876&Opt=3
on.gov.uk/moderngov/
ieIssueDetails.aspx?
IId=3876&Opt=3
NotConvinced!!
says...
7:42am Fri 20 May 11
Roystons own words - even after the staff pay cuts he's STILL going to make 400 redundant in 2 years time (even though he won't be around)
"Secondly it will save 400 jobs over the next two years in the local authority meaning no Libraries, Leisure Centres or Sure Start Centres will close and we will keep collecting our bins weekly.
Thirdly, we have to save £25 million this year rising to £65 million in year four. By keeping 400 jobs in the organisation we will buy ourselves time. We will in effect give ourselves another two years for people to move on through retirement or a career change thereby avoiding more compulsory redundancies than is absolutely necessary."
He lied to you about the photos in his newsletter and he's lying about these wage cuts saving jobs. GET HIM OUT!
Good luck to the strikers, don't make it easy for the weasel.
"Secondly it will save 400 jobs over the next two years in the local authority meaning no Libraries, Leisure Centres or Sure Start Centres will close and we will keep collecting our bins weekly.
Thirdly, we have to save £25 million this year rising to £65 million in year four. By keeping 400 jobs in the organisation we will buy ourselves time. We will in effect give ourselves another two years for people to move on through retirement or a career change thereby avoiding more compulsory redundancies than is absolutely necessary."
He lied to you about the photos in his newsletter and he's lying about these wage cuts saving jobs. GET HIM OUT!
Good luck to the strikers, don't make it easy for the weasel.
NotConvinced!!
says...
7:50am Fri 20 May 11
loosehead wrote:Talking of researching things before you come on here- the reason the paintings sold is that it would of been illegal to do so. I suspect anything that isnt nailed down would be sold if this unscrupulous council leader had his way to further his ambition.
NotConvinced!! wrote:You said look at council tax & I said what I felt about that. I have also said that if you looked into it all councils have to have a reserve by law but you keep banging on about the council spending the reserve & going on about the council speeding tax payers money on projects ( white elephants) which you've been asked by several people to prove you haven't nor have you answered the question why is Mike Tucker & the other union leading men on strike to safeguard the wages of high earners & put another 400 on the dole? the reason i mentioned BAT is because you wen't on about Terms & conditions 7 my point was that isn't going to matter to the extra 400 who lose their jobs if the union gets it's way.I try to put ways of earning revenue so there's no need for as many as 250 made redundant but you can't see that these poor lower paid workers are being led like lambs to the slaughter so that the people on £25,000-£40,000 don't get a pay cut & if you'd read all the posts I think you'd then find out that they also want a 4% pay rise so please open your eyes or take your left wing blinkers off & see reality.I totally agree that the carbuncle on the side of the city shouldn't have been built but I have no objections to a Sea ( Titanic) museum being built closer to the docks.But once again were's the proof that our money was spent on it? as for the art you can thank the left wing ( Southy) & the art lovers for that ( three paintings) not being sold now or in the future no matter how many jobs it would/could have saved.please research these things before you come on here having a go at the council when on some subjects their hands are tied.Maybe they should up the rent on the Mosque to a true reflection of rentable land in that area what do you think?
loosehead wrote:All entitled to our opinions, you've totally misread what I said & ignored others.
NotConvinced!! wrote:Look at the council tax are you an idiot? Why not look at neighbouring authorities instead? fortnightly bin collections meaning you only need half the bin men & Lorry's so saving on wages there! charge for people parking outside their own homes ( Labour"s doing it & this Labour party proposed it) Then think back when the letters page & these posts were all about how people especially the old were going to pay for their council tax with the hefty rises proposed by Labour,We must find a way of making the services more affordable & make the public do more ( like look after the old ) instead of having it all done for them & expecting Council Tax payers to pay for it.Socialism is suppose to be about a caring society where we all look out for each other that's not what Labour gave us it's a gimme,gimme society Look at the £40,000 earners at the council "make 400 more redundant & not cut my pay by 5.5% but I want my guaranteed 4% pay rise" That's what you agree with is it? You expect every one to pay more council tax for these people many who don't even live in the city.Get real the private sector isn't getting pay rises & in many cases are taking pay cuts yet you expect them to pay more council tax to look after these people in their Ivory towers? I think it's you who's lost the plot & got it so wrong!loosehead wrote: You kept on about Roystons pr so what pr? As for the unions why didn't they explain to the workforce at BAT that going on strike for 50p a week was suicide? the militants stirred the pot said they won't shut us down so the rest followed & hey presto no more manufacturing as they got it wrong so what terms & conditions if you have no job? I try to put forward suggestions so that the council can either save or earn money.So here's one with all the bland buildings with no history just glass & concrete why no do as most big cities do & have Plasma or similar advertising on the outside bringing in revenue.Prime city sites the companies would be queuing up to use them.You see these are far more constructive ideas to bring in revenue to avert the actions the council are faced with than the Unions telling a local council to hit the banks & the tax dodgers?Looking at council tax in the city is a very viable option! As is looking to spend council reserves on wage not capital buildings. It's about choice on what the council spend. Commenting and discussing every industrial dispute in history isn't relevant to this industrial action in this dispute. The council has the money. Everyones entitled to their opinion, plasma screens may able to you but not everyone.
NotConvinced!!
says...
7:54am Fri 20 May 11
http://www.dailyecho
.co.uk/news/4500168.
___Sell_art_or_no_Ti
tanic_museum____says
_council_leader/?act
ion=complain&cid=784
7338
LIEs, lies and more lies. Roll on May 5th get them out!
.co.uk/news/4500168.
___Sell_art_or_no_Ti
tanic_museum____says
_council_leader/?act
ion=complain&cid=784
7338
LIEs, lies and more lies. Roll on May 5th get them out!
NotConvinced!!
says...
7:57am Fri 20 May 11
NotConvinced!! wrote:Typo- the reason the paintings weren't sold.
loosehead wrote:Talking of researching things before you come on here- the reason the paintings sold is that it would of been illegal to do so. I suspect anything that isnt nailed down would be sold if this unscrupulous council leader had his way to further his ambition.
NotConvinced!! wrote:You said look at council tax & I said what I felt about that. I have also said that if you looked into it all councils have to have a reserve by law but you keep banging on about the council spending the reserve & going on about the council speeding tax payers money on projects ( white elephants) which you've been asked by several people to prove you haven't nor have you answered the question why is Mike Tucker & the other union leading men on strike to safeguard the wages of high earners & put another 400 on the dole? the reason i mentioned BAT is because you wen't on about Terms & conditions 7 my point was that isn't going to matter to the extra 400 who lose their jobs if the union gets it's way.I try to put ways of earning revenue so there's no need for as many as 250 made redundant but you can't see that these poor lower paid workers are being led like lambs to the slaughter so that the people on £25,000-£40,000 don't get a pay cut & if you'd read all the posts I think you'd then find out that they also want a 4% pay rise so please open your eyes or take your left wing blinkers off & see reality.I totally agree that the carbuncle on the side of the city shouldn't have been built but I have no objections to a Sea ( Titanic) museum being built closer to the docks.But once again were's the proof that our money was spent on it? as for the art you can thank the left wing ( Southy) & the art lovers for that ( three paintings) not being sold now or in the future no matter how many jobs it would/could have saved.please research these things before you come on here having a go at the council when on some subjects their hands are tied.Maybe they should up the rent on the Mosque to a true reflection of rentable land in that area what do you think?
loosehead wrote:All entitled to our opinions, you've totally misread what I said & ignored others.
NotConvinced!! wrote:Look at the council tax are you an idiot? Why not look at neighbouring authorities instead? fortnightly bin collections meaning you only need half the bin men & Lorry's so saving on wages there! charge for people parking outside their own homes ( Labour"s doing it & this Labour party proposed it) Then think back when the letters page & these posts were all about how people especially the old were going to pay for their council tax with the hefty rises proposed by Labour,We must find a way of making the services more affordable & make the public do more ( like look after the old ) instead of having it all done for them & expecting Council Tax payers to pay for it.Socialism is suppose to be about a caring society where we all look out for each other that's not what Labour gave us it's a gimme,gimme society Look at the £40,000 earners at the council "make 400 more redundant & not cut my pay by 5.5% but I want my guaranteed 4% pay rise" That's what you agree with is it? You expect every one to pay more council tax for these people many who don't even live in the city.Get real the private sector isn't getting pay rises & in many cases are taking pay cuts yet you expect them to pay more council tax to look after these people in their Ivory towers? I think it's you who's lost the plot & got it so wrong!loosehead wrote: You kept on about Roystons pr so what pr? As for the unions why didn't they explain to the workforce at BAT that going on strike for 50p a week was suicide? the militants stirred the pot said they won't shut us down so the rest followed & hey presto no more manufacturing as they got it wrong so what terms & conditions if you have no job? I try to put forward suggestions so that the council can either save or earn money.So here's one with all the bland buildings with no history just glass & concrete why no do as most big cities do & have Plasma or similar advertising on the outside bringing in revenue.Prime city sites the companies would be queuing up to use them.You see these are far more constructive ideas to bring in revenue to avert the actions the council are faced with than the Unions telling a local council to hit the banks & the tax dodgers?Looking at council tax in the city is a very viable option! As is looking to spend council reserves on wage not capital buildings. It's about choice on what the council spend. Commenting and discussing every industrial dispute in history isn't relevant to this industrial action in this dispute. The council has the money. Everyones entitled to their opinion, plasma screens may able to you but not everyone.
loosehead
says...
11:49am Fri 20 May 11
NotConvinced!! wrote:Answer this one if all the council felt the way you do WHY did a dustcart driver go into the union offices & throw in his Union card as he felt the outcome of the vote was rigged as most binmen voted against strike action. & wasn't it you who banged on about why didn't they sell the art? Are you Southy in disguise as you sound as warped & blinkered as he is
NotConvinced!! wrote:Typo- the reason the paintings weren't sold.
loosehead wrote:Talking of researching things before you come on here- the reason the paintings sold is that it would of been illegal to do so. I suspect anything that isnt nailed down would be sold if this unscrupulous council leader had his way to further his ambition.
NotConvinced!! wrote:You said look at council tax & I said what I felt about that. I have also said that if you looked into it all councils have to have a reserve by law but you keep banging on about the council spending the reserve & going on about the council speeding tax payers money on projects ( white elephants) which you've been asked by several people to prove you haven't nor have you answered the question why is Mike Tucker & the other union leading men on strike to safeguard the wages of high earners & put another 400 on the dole? the reason i mentioned BAT is because you wen't on about Terms & conditions 7 my point was that isn't going to matter to the extra 400 who lose their jobs if the union gets it's way.I try to put ways of earning revenue so there's no need for as many as 250 made redundant but you can't see that these poor lower paid workers are being led like lambs to the slaughter so that the people on £25,000-£40,000 don't get a pay cut & if you'd read all the posts I think you'd then find out that they also want a 4% pay rise so please open your eyes or take your left wing blinkers off & see reality.I totally agree that the carbuncle on the side of the city shouldn't have been built but I have no objections to a Sea ( Titanic) museum being built closer to the docks.But once again were's the proof that our money was spent on it? as for the art you can thank the left wing ( Southy) & the art lovers for that ( three paintings) not being sold now or in the future no matter how many jobs it would/could have saved.please research these things before you come on here having a go at the council when on some subjects their hands are tied.Maybe they should up the rent on the Mosque to a true reflection of rentable land in that area what do you think?
loosehead wrote:All entitled to our opinions, you've totally misread what I said & ignored others.
NotConvinced!! wrote:Look at the council tax are you an idiot? Why not look at neighbouring authorities instead? fortnightly bin collections meaning you only need half the bin men & Lorry's so saving on wages there! charge for people parking outside their own homes ( Labour"s doing it & this Labour party proposed it) Then think back when the letters page & these posts were all about how people especially the old were going to pay for their council tax with the hefty rises proposed by Labour,We must find a way of making the services more affordable & make the public do more ( like look after the old ) instead of having it all done for them & expecting Council Tax payers to pay for it.Socialism is suppose to be about a caring society where we all look out for each other that's not what Labour gave us it's a gimme,gimme society Look at the £40,000 earners at the council "make 400 more redundant & not cut my pay by 5.5% but I want my guaranteed 4% pay rise" That's what you agree with is it? You expect every one to pay more council tax for these people many who don't even live in the city.Get real the private sector isn't getting pay rises & in many cases are taking pay cuts yet you expect them to pay more council tax to look after these people in their Ivory towers? I think it's you who's lost the plot & got it so wrong!loosehead wrote: You kept on about Roystons pr so what pr? As for the unions why didn't they explain to the workforce at BAT that going on strike for 50p a week was suicide? the militants stirred the pot said they won't shut us down so the rest followed & hey presto no more manufacturing as they got it wrong so what terms & conditions if you have no job? I try to put forward suggestions so that the council can either save or earn money.So here's one with all the bland buildings with no history just glass & concrete why no do as most big cities do & have Plasma or similar advertising on the outside bringing in revenue.Prime city sites the companies would be queuing up to use them.You see these are far more constructive ideas to bring in revenue to avert the actions the council are faced with than the Unions telling a local council to hit the banks & the tax dodgers?Looking at council tax in the city is a very viable option! As is looking to spend council reserves on wage not capital buildings. It's about choice on what the council spend. Commenting and discussing every industrial dispute in history isn't relevant to this industrial action in this dispute. The council has the money. Everyones entitled to their opinion, plasma screens may able to you but not everyone.
NotConvinced!!
says...
2:23pm Fri 20 May 11
loosehead wrote:No my sweet it wasn't me 'banging on' about selling the art. Probably because I'm quite well informed that it would be illegal......
NotConvinced!! wrote:Answer this one if all the council felt the way you do WHY did a dustcart driver go into the union offices & throw in his Union card as he felt the outcome of the vote was rigged as most binmen voted against strike action. & wasn't it you who banged on about why didn't they sell the art? Are you Southy in disguise as you sound as warped & blinkered as he isNotConvinced!! wrote:Typo- the reason the paintings weren't sold.loosehead wrote:Talking of researching things before you come on here- the reason the paintings sold is that it would of been illegal to do so. I suspect anything that isnt nailed down would be sold if this unscrupulous council leader had his way to further his ambition.NotConvinced!! wrote:You said look at council tax & I said what I felt about that. I have also said that if you looked into it all councils have to have a reserve by law but you keep banging on about the council spending the reserve & going on about the council speeding tax payers money on projects ( white elephants) which you've been asked by several people to prove you haven't nor have you answered the question why is Mike Tucker & the other union leading men on strike to safeguard the wages of high earners & put another 400 on the dole? the reason i mentioned BAT is because you wen't on about Terms & conditions 7 my point was that isn't going to matter to the extra 400 who lose their jobs if the union gets it's way.I try to put ways of earning revenue so there's no need for as many as 250 made redundant but you can't see that these poor lower paid workers are being led like lambs to the slaughter so that the people on £25,000-£40,000 don't get a pay cut & if you'd read all the posts I think you'd then find out that they also want a 4% pay rise so please open your eyes or take your left wing blinkers off & see reality.I totally agree that the carbuncle on the side of the city shouldn't have been built but I have no objections to a Sea ( Titanic) museum being built closer to the docks.But once again were's the proof that our money was spent on it? as for the art you can thank the left wing ( Southy) & the art lovers for that ( three paintings) not being sold now or in the future no matter how many jobs it would/could have saved.please research these things before you come on here having a go at the council when on some subjects their hands are tied.Maybe they should up the rent on the Mosque to a true reflection of rentable land in that area what do you think?loosehead wrote:All entitled to our opinions, you've totally misread what I said & ignored others.NotConvinced!! wrote:Look at the council tax are you an idiot? Why not look at neighbouring authorities instead? fortnightly bin collections meaning you only need half the bin men & Lorry's so saving on wages there! charge for people parking outside their own homes ( Labour"s doing it & this Labour party proposed it) Then think back when the letters page & these posts were all about how people especially the old were going to pay for their council tax with the hefty rises proposed by Labour,We must find a way of making the services more affordable & make the public do more ( like look after the old ) instead of having it all done for them & expecting Council Tax payers to pay for it.Socialism is suppose to be about a caring society where we all look out for each other that's not what Labour gave us it's a gimme,gimme society Look at the £40,000 earners at the council "make 400 more redundant & not cut my pay by 5.5% but I want my guaranteed 4% pay rise" That's what you agree with is it? You expect every one to pay more council tax for these people many who don't even live in the city.Get real the private sector isn't getting pay rises & in many cases are taking pay cuts yet you expect them to pay more council tax to look after these people in their Ivory towers? I think it's you who's lost the plot & got it so wrong!loosehead wrote: You kept on about Roystons pr so what pr? As for the unions why didn't they explain to the workforce at BAT that going on strike for 50p a week was suicide? the militants stirred the pot said they won't shut us down so the rest followed & hey presto no more manufacturing as they got it wrong so what terms & conditions if you have no job? I try to put forward suggestions so that the council can either save or earn money.So here's one with all the bland buildings with no history just glass & concrete why no do as most big cities do & have Plasma or similar advertising on the outside bringing in revenue.Prime city sites the companies would be queuing up to use them.You see these are far more constructive ideas to bring in revenue to avert the actions the council are faced with than the Unions telling a local council to hit the banks & the tax dodgers?Looking at council tax in the city is a very viable option! As is looking to spend council reserves on wage not capital buildings. It's about choice on what the council spend. Commenting and discussing every industrial dispute in history isn't relevant to this industrial action in this dispute. The council has the money. Everyones entitled to their opinion, plasma screens may able to you but not everyone.
In answer to your question, IF a dustman did what you said (based on most of your inaccurate ramblings I would doubt that he did) it's because it's a democracy and everyone does not have the same opinion. Votes were taken in all sections called out on strike. If this person downy agree with the outcome of a democratic vote than it's quite right he does hand in his union card. Your inaccurate because each section called out on strike had a vote to be calls out on selective action in their department
You sure you're not Royston? Vitriol and inaccuracies make you sound as nasty and self serving a him
Ant Smoking MP
says...
3:27pm Fri 20 May 11
"WHY did a dustcart driver go into the union offices & throw in his Union card as he felt the outcome of the vote was rigged as most binmen voted against strike action."
.
This did not happen. The ballot was conducted by the ERS, Electoral Reform Society . They also conduct Council and general election ballots.
.
How was this 'rigged'?
.
What does & mean?
.
This did not happen. The ballot was conducted by the ERS, Electoral Reform Society . They also conduct Council and general election ballots.
.
How was this 'rigged'?
.
What does & mean?
NotConvinced!!
says...
5:24pm Fri 20 May 11
Ant Smoking MP wrote:Quite right! He'll go quiet now, then come out with some comment completley off on a tangent! won't admit he's wrong........
"WHY did a dustcart driver go into the union offices & throw in his Union card as he felt the outcome of the vote was rigged as most binmen voted against strike action."
.
This did not happen. The ballot was conducted by the ERS, Electoral Reform Society . They also conduct Council and general election ballots.
.
How was this 'rigged'?
.
What does & mean?
Scrutinizer
says...
2:59am Sat 21 May 11
Tucker, you are so full of horse manure they can smell it in Africa! Full of mouthing off for your own ends as usual. I know you only too well old boy - and from personal experience!
loosehead
says...
10:36am Sat 21 May 11
NotConvinced!! wrote:Southy sorry not convinced I'm not your sweetie & the only inaccuracy is your title as what chance has anyone got to change your bigoted left wing views? I was talking to a dust cart driver who was really angry as most drivers(his words) said they voted against strike action & when he saw the so called result he chucked in his card he said it was rigged not me as for everything else you go on about as soon as someone shoots you down on one of your gripes you come back with the same drivel & at the end of the day instead of the total sum of 600 going in two years+ it will be 1,000+ going so 400 extra people loosing there jobs through listening to left wing crap & through the state the Left wing Labour party left this countries finances in .Enough people have tried to answer your questions but you don't want to hear the truth so it's my last reply to your absolute crap
loosehead wrote:No my sweet it wasn't me 'banging on' about selling the art. Probably because I'm quite well informed that it would be illegal......
NotConvinced!! wrote:Answer this one if all the council felt the way you do WHY did a dustcart driver go into the union offices & throw in his Union card as he felt the outcome of the vote was rigged as most binmen voted against strike action. & wasn't it you who banged on about why didn't they sell the art? Are you Southy in disguise as you sound as warped & blinkered as he isNotConvinced!! wrote:Typo- the reason the paintings weren't sold.loosehead wrote:Talking of researching things before you come on here- the reason the paintings sold is that it would of been illegal to do so. I suspect anything that isnt nailed down would be sold if this unscrupulous council leader had his way to further his ambition.NotConvinced!! wrote:You said look at council tax & I said what I felt about that. I have also said that if you looked into it all councils have to have a reserve by law but you keep banging on about the council spending the reserve & going on about the council speeding tax payers money on projects ( white elephants) which you've been asked by several people to prove you haven't nor have you answered the question why is Mike Tucker & the other union leading men on strike to safeguard the wages of high earners & put another 400 on the dole? the reason i mentioned BAT is because you wen't on about Terms & conditions 7 my point was that isn't going to matter to the extra 400 who lose their jobs if the union gets it's way.I try to put ways of earning revenue so there's no need for as many as 250 made redundant but you can't see that these poor lower paid workers are being led like lambs to the slaughter so that the people on £25,000-£40,000 don't get a pay cut & if you'd read all the posts I think you'd then find out that they also want a 4% pay rise so please open your eyes or take your left wing blinkers off & see reality.I totally agree that the carbuncle on the side of the city shouldn't have been built but I have no objections to a Sea ( Titanic) museum being built closer to the docks.But once again were's the proof that our money was spent on it? as for the art you can thank the left wing ( Southy) & the art lovers for that ( three paintings) not being sold now or in the future no matter how many jobs it would/could have saved.please research these things before you come on here having a go at the council when on some subjects their hands are tied.Maybe they should up the rent on the Mosque to a true reflection of rentable land in that area what do you think?loosehead wrote:All entitled to our opinions, you've totally misread what I said & ignored others.NotConvinced!! wrote:Look at the council tax are you an idiot? Why not look at neighbouring authorities instead? fortnightly bin collections meaning you only need half the bin men & Lorry's so saving on wages there! charge for people parking outside their own homes ( Labour"s doing it & this Labour party proposed it) Then think back when the letters page & these posts were all about how people especially the old were going to pay for their council tax with the hefty rises proposed by Labour,We must find a way of making the services more affordable & make the public do more ( like look after the old ) instead of having it all done for them & expecting Council Tax payers to pay for it.Socialism is suppose to be about a caring society where we all look out for each other that's not what Labour gave us it's a gimme,gimme society Look at the £40,000 earners at the council "make 400 more redundant & not cut my pay by 5.5% but I want my guaranteed 4% pay rise" That's what you agree with is it? You expect every one to pay more council tax for these people many who don't even live in the city.Get real the private sector isn't getting pay rises & in many cases are taking pay cuts yet you expect them to pay more council tax to look after these people in their Ivory towers? I think it's you who's lost the plot & got it so wrong!loosehead wrote: You kept on about Roystons pr so what pr? As for the unions why didn't they explain to the workforce at BAT that going on strike for 50p a week was suicide? the militants stirred the pot said they won't shut us down so the rest followed & hey presto no more manufacturing as they got it wrong so what terms & conditions if you have no job? I try to put forward suggestions so that the council can either save or earn money.So here's one with all the bland buildings with no history just glass & concrete why no do as most big cities do & have Plasma or similar advertising on the outside bringing in revenue.Prime city sites the companies would be queuing up to use them.You see these are far more constructive ideas to bring in revenue to avert the actions the council are faced with than the Unions telling a local council to hit the banks & the tax dodgers?Looking at council tax in the city is a very viable option! As is looking to spend council reserves on wage not capital buildings. It's about choice on what the council spend. Commenting and discussing every industrial dispute in history isn't relevant to this industrial action in this dispute. The council has the money. Everyones entitled to their opinion, plasma screens may able to you but not everyone.
In answer to your question, IF a dustman did what you said (based on most of your inaccurate ramblings I would doubt that he did) it's because it's a democracy and everyone does not have the same opinion. Votes were taken in all sections called out on strike. If this person downy agree with the outcome of a democratic vote than it's quite right he does hand in his union card. Your inaccurate because each section called out on strike had a vote to be calls out on selective action in their department
You sure you're not Royston? Vitriol and inaccuracies make you sound as nasty and self serving a him
NotConvinced!!
says...
1:30pm Sat 21 May 11
loosehead wrote:It's Fact that the ballot was carried out by the electoral reform services, it's fact it cannot of been rigged. So it cannot be true what your saying. If a binman doesn't agree with the democratic outcome he's quite right to leave the union. It's like any organisation, if you dot agree with it's aims you leave.
NotConvinced!! wrote:Southy sorry not convinced I'm not your sweetie & the only inaccuracy is your title as what chance has anyone got to change your bigoted left wing views? I was talking to a dust cart driver who was really angry as most drivers(his words) said they voted against strike action & when he saw the so called result he chucked in his card he said it was rigged not me as for everything else you go on about as soon as someone shoots you down on one of your gripes you come back with the same drivel & at the end of the day instead of the total sum of 600 going in two years+ it will be 1,000+ going so 400 extra people loosing there jobs through listening to left wing crap & through the state the Left wing Labour party left this countries finances in .Enough people have tried to answer your questions but you don't want to hear the truth so it's my last reply to your absolute craploosehead wrote:No my sweet it wasn't me 'banging on' about selling the art. Probably because I'm quite well informed that it would be illegal...... In answer to your question, IF a dustman did what you said (based on most of your inaccurate ramblings I would doubt that he did) it's because it's a democracy and everyone does not have the same opinion. Votes were taken in all sections called out on strike. If this person downy agree with the outcome of a democratic vote than it's quite right he does hand in his union card. Your inaccurate because each section called out on strike had a vote to be calls out on selective action in their department You sure you're not Royston? Vitriol and inaccuracies make you sound as nasty and self serving a himNotConvinced!! wrote:Answer this one if all the council felt the way you do WHY did a dustcart driver go into the union offices & throw in his Union card as he felt the outcome of the vote was rigged as most binmen voted against strike action. & wasn't it you who banged on about why didn't they sell the art? Are you Southy in disguise as you sound as warped & blinkered as he isNotConvinced!! wrote:Typo- the reason the paintings weren't sold.loosehead wrote:Talking of researching things before you come on here- the reason the paintings sold is that it would of been illegal to do so. I suspect anything that isnt nailed down would be sold if this unscrupulous council leader had his way to further his ambition.NotConvinced!! wrote:You said look at council tax & I said what I felt about that. I have also said that if you looked into it all councils have to have a reserve by law but you keep banging on about the council spending the reserve & going on about the council speeding tax payers money on projects ( white elephants) which you've been asked by several people to prove you haven't nor have you answered the question why is Mike Tucker & the other union leading men on strike to safeguard the wages of high earners & put another 400 on the dole? the reason i mentioned BAT is because you wen't on about Terms & conditions 7 my point was that isn't going to matter to the extra 400 who lose their jobs if the union gets it's way.I try to put ways of earning revenue so there's no need for as many as 250 made redundant but you can't see that these poor lower paid workers are being led like lambs to the slaughter so that the people on £25,000-£40,000 don't get a pay cut & if you'd read all the posts I think you'd then find out that they also want a 4% pay rise so please open your eyes or take your left wing blinkers off & see reality.I totally agree that the carbuncle on the side of the city shouldn't have been built but I have no objections to a Sea ( Titanic) museum being built closer to the docks.But once again were's the proof that our money was spent on it? as for the art you can thank the left wing ( Southy) & the art lovers for that ( three paintings) not being sold now or in the future no matter how many jobs it would/could have saved.please research these things before you come on here having a go at the council when on some subjects their hands are tied.Maybe they should up the rent on the Mosque to a true reflection of rentable land in that area what do you think?loosehead wrote:All entitled to our opinions, you've totally misread what I said & ignored others.NotConvinced!! wrote:Look at the council tax are you an idiot? Why not look at neighbouring authorities instead? fortnightly bin collections meaning you only need half the bin men & Lorry's so saving on wages there! charge for people parking outside their own homes ( Labour"s doing it & this Labour party proposed it) Then think back when the letters page & these posts were all about how people especially the old were going to pay for their council tax with the hefty rises proposed by Labour,We must find a way of making the services more affordable & make the public do more ( like look after the old ) instead of having it all done for them & expecting Council Tax payers to pay for it.Socialism is suppose to be about a caring society where we all look out for each other that's not what Labour gave us it's a gimme,gimme society Look at the £40,000 earners at the council "make 400 more redundant & not cut my pay by 5.5% but I want my guaranteed 4% pay rise" That's what you agree with is it? You expect every one to pay more council tax for these people many who don't even live in the city.Get real the private sector isn't getting pay rises & in many cases are taking pay cuts yet you expect them to pay more council tax to look after these people in their Ivory towers? I think it's you who's lost the plot & got it so wrong!loosehead wrote: You kept on about Roystons pr so what pr? As for the unions why didn't they explain to the workforce at BAT that going on strike for 50p a week was suicide? the militants stirred the pot said they won't shut us down so the rest followed & hey presto no more manufacturing as they got it wrong so what terms & conditions if you have no job? I try to put forward suggestions so that the council can either save or earn money.So here's one with all the bland buildings with no history just glass & concrete why no do as most big cities do & have Plasma or similar advertising on the outside bringing in revenue.Prime city sites the companies would be queuing up to use them.You see these are far more constructive ideas to bring in revenue to avert the actions the council are faced with than the Unions telling a local council to hit the banks & the tax dodgers?Looking at council tax in the city is a very viable option! As is looking to spend council reserves on wage not capital buildings. It's about choice on what the council spend. Commenting and discussing every industrial dispute in history isn't relevant to this industrial action in this dispute. The council has the money. Everyones entitled to their opinion, plasma screens may able to you but not everyone.
I'm just going to ignore the southy comment it's very sad and a desperate attempt to take attention away from the actual issue. Electoral reform service ballots cannot be rigged. If telling the truth and using actual facts, instead of your Royston spin makes me a left wing biggot...... then so be it!
NotConvinced!!
says...
1:34pm Sat 21 May 11
Scrutinizer wrote:back it up with fact. What does he stand to gain?
Tucker, you are so full of horse manure they can smell it in Africa! Full of mouthing off for your own ends as usual. I know you only too well old boy - and from personal experience!
southy says...
2:32pm Tue 17 May 11