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Titanic survivor slams Dr Who plot
MILLVINA Dean, the Titanic's only living survivor, has hit out at the BBC for using the doomed liner as the plot for the Christmas Day episode of Dr Who.
Ms Dean, 95, from Woodlands in the New Forest - who lost her father in the infamous sinking when she was a two-month-old baby - said: "It is disrespectful to the dead and bereaved to make entertainment of such a tragedy."
In the special episode, Dr Who will be confronted by an alien version of the ill-fated Southampton liner colliding with the Tardis.
The Titanic sank on her maiden voyage in 1912 after colliding with an iceberg with the loss of more than 1,500 passengers and crew.
9:00am Monday 24th December 2007
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CommentPosted by: Dr Who Fan, Southampton on 9:10am Mon 24 Dec 07
What a shame that this lady does not see that actually this will bring to life the Titantic story to another generation. This is entertainment and Dr Who is a fantastic production. We all have to move forward in life - and this will bring life to a story that is old hat now.
What a shame that this lady does not see that actually this will bring to life the Titantic story to another generation. This is entertainment and Dr Who is a fantastic production. We all have to move forward in life - and this will bring life to a story that is old hat now.
Posted by: Gus Tofwind, southampton on 9:10am Mon 24 Dec 07
Nice spec's, you could start a fire with them on a sunny day!
Should of gone to spec savers.
Nice spec's, you could start a fire with them on a sunny day!
Should of gone to spec savers.
Posted by: Sheitma Pance, Soton on 9:17am Mon 24 Dec 07
To 'Dr Who Fan': Remember that hundreds lost their lives on this ship.
Would you be saying "This is entertainment" if the show featured the twin towers, for example?
To 'Gus Tofwind': Show some respect.
To 'Dr Who Fan': Remember that hundreds lost their lives on this ship.
Would you be saying "This is entertainment" if the show featured the twin towers, for example?
To 'Gus Tofwind': Show some respect.
Posted by: Gozza (Not a Dr Who fan), Southampton on 9:33am Mon 24 Dec 07
I'm not a Dr Who fan so I won't be watching it - but this isn't the first "entertainment" based on the tragedy and it won't be the last. Off the top of my head, "A Night to Remember", "Raise the Titanic" and that God-awful thing with Kate Winslet. And while I can't remember the name, there HAS been a film made about the Twin Towers.
Why is this any different?
I'm not a Dr Who fan so I won't be watching it - but this isn't the first "entertainment" based on the tragedy and it won't be the last. Off the top of my head, "A Night to Remember", "Raise the Titanic" and that God-awful thing with Kate Winslet. And while I can't remember the name, there HAS been a film made about the Twin Towers.
Why is this any different?
Posted by: jed, soton on 10:14am Mon 24 Dec 07
I don't think this is disrespectful, it does keep the Titanic story alive. If they were bringing the Titanic dead back to life on the episode then yes, that would be disrespectful. Whether right or wrong, Ms Dean is living in a very different era with different values. If children are to be told aboput Titanic and the tragic events of here maiden voyage, they need to be inspired into the Titanic story and this is a good way of doing so.
But I do agree that some of the comments here are disrespectful and obviously written by ignorant people?
I don't think this is disrespectful, it does keep the Titanic story alive. If they were bringing the Titanic dead back to life on the episode then yes, that would be disrespectful. Whether right or wrong, Ms Dean is living in a very different era with different values. If children are to be told aboput Titanic and the tragic events of here maiden voyage, they need to be inspired into the Titanic story and this is a good way of doing so.
But I do agree that some of the comments here are disrespectful and obviously written by ignorant people?
Posted by: Adam on 10:36am Mon 24 Dec 07
Sheitma Pance, don't be a moron. Perhaps they should have done something about M*A*S*H for daring to depict the Korean War? My Poppa used to watch war movies, and he was an army cook during WW2 and lost friends hours after feeding them! He obviously wasn't as precious as the old dear is. Why is she complaining about Doctor Who and not that awful 1997 Titanic movie? That had nudity and everything in it. She may come from a different generation, but remember every generation has people who get up in arms over silly things, while most of their contemporaries don't/didn't. This complainer just outlived the not-so-silly people.
Sheitma Pance, don't be a moron. Perhaps they should have done something about M*A*S*H for daring to depict the Korean War? My Poppa used to watch war movies, and he was an army cook during WW2 and lost friends hours after feeding them! He obviously wasn't as precious as the old dear is. Why is she complaining about Doctor Who and not that awful 1997 Titanic movie? That had nudity and everything in it. She may come from a different generation, but remember every generation has people who get up in arms over silly things, while most of their contemporaries don't/didn't. This complainer just outlived the not-so-silly people.
Posted by: Fred, Bristol on 10:41am Mon 24 Dec 07
[quote][bold]Sheitma Pance[/bold] wrote:
To 'Dr Who Fan': Remember that hundreds lost their lives on this ship. Would you be saying "This is entertainment" if the show featured the twin towers, for example? To 'Gus Tofwind': Show some respect. [/quote] And I think you need remember that thousands of people have died during the various wars, but we all love a good war film don't we?
The story of the Titanic and its passengers, can be romantic, thought-provoking, humourous and upsetting, all the elements of a good film!
While I understand the rather old fashioned views, they are exactly that - old fashioned.
It's a BBC programme, so will surely be in good taste and - don't forget - it's DR WHO. Hardly reality TV is it?!
Sheitma Pance wrote:
To 'Dr Who Fan': Remember that hundreds lost their lives on this ship. Would you be saying "This is entertainment" if the show featured the twin towers, for example? To 'Gus Tofwind': Show some respect.
And I think you need remember that thousands of people have died during the various wars, but we all love a good war film don't we?
The story of the Titanic and its passengers, can be romantic, thought-provoking, humourous and upsetting, all the elements of a good film!
While I understand the rather old fashioned views, they are exactly that - old fashioned.
It's a BBC programme, so will surely be in good taste and - don't forget - it's DR WHO. Hardly reality TV is it?!
Posted by: WWIII, Southampton on 10:46am Mon 24 Dec 07
I too am disgusted with the BBC, after turning my television on to find a film called 'The Great Escape'. I've not come across this film before, but it was disrespectful to the dead and bereaved to make entertainment of such a tragedy. I hope they realise their mistake and don't show it again.
I too am disgusted with the BBC, after turning my television on to find a film called 'The Great Escape'. I've not come across this film before, but it was disrespectful to the dead and bereaved to make entertainment of such a tragedy. I hope they realise their mistake and don't show it again.
Posted by: Darren, chanders ford on 11:31am Mon 24 Dec 07
[quote][bold]Gus Tofwind[/bold] wrote:
Nice spec's, you could start a fire with them on a sunny day! Should of gone to spec savers.[/quote] Thanks, I was drinking tea when i read that and it ended up coming out of my nose.
Gus Tofwind wrote:
Nice spec's, you could start a fire with them on a sunny day! Should of gone to spec savers.
Thanks, I was drinking tea when i read that and it ended up coming out of my nose.
Posted by: Anon, Southampton on 12:16pm Mon 24 Dec 07
She is slamming Dr Who but has been lunching out on it for 95 years. I wonder how many events she has been pedalled out at now.
Are those special iceberg spotting glasses she is wearing?
She is slamming Dr Who but has been lunching out on it for 95 years. I wonder how many events she has been pedalled out at now.
Are those special iceberg spotting glasses she is wearing?
Posted by: Sheitm,a Pance, Soton on 12:23pm Mon 24 Dec 07
What you is forgetting is Dr Who is a comedy/children's programme, not a serious film, hence it is inappropriate and disrespectful
What you is forgetting is Dr Who is a comedy/children's programme, not a serious film, hence it is inappropriate and disrespectful
Posted by: Gus Tofwind, southampton on 12:29pm Mon 24 Dec 07
Sheitma Pance, you have got to be having a giggle.
This was 95 years ago and comedy always comes from tragedy.
you need to wind your neck in and try to have a bit of fun at a harmless comment.
As for your 'twin towers' comment it is not comparable as its so recent but it will happen. do you comment about 2nd world war films??? this was only 60 years ago, virtually yesterday then?
i did,nt even mention her 'snail' earrings!
Sheitma Pance, you have got to be having a giggle.
This was 95 years ago and comedy always comes from tragedy.
you need to wind your neck in and try to have a bit of fun at a harmless comment.
As for your 'twin towers' comment it is not comparable as its so recent but it will happen. do you comment about 2nd world war films??? this was only 60 years ago, virtually yesterday then?
i did,nt even mention her 'snail' earrings!
Posted by: Derek, Dibden Purlieu on 12:35pm Mon 24 Dec 07
The old duck could do with a new rug and someone ought to tell her that the lippy doesn't really do it any more.
The old duck could do with a new rug and someone ought to tell her that the lippy doesn't really do it any more.
Posted by: mr.southampton, Southampton on 12:47pm Mon 24 Dec 07
[quote][bold]Sheitm,a Pance[/bold] wrote:
What you is forgetting is Dr Who is a comedy/children's programme, not a serious film, hence it is inappropriate and disrespectful[/quote] And the Kate Winslett film was a documentary??? There's even a spoof of that same film called thumbtanic which stars a set of thumbs...
The point is that yes, originally the titanic was a tragedy, however through the passing of time it has become a cultural phenomenon, much like other big 'shared' events like WWI and II. Because of their prominence in our cultural narrative they take on their own importance as mythologies.
The Titanic is now essentialy a mythological story about man creating a machine to command nature (the sea) but failing. There are some parrellels with the story of Icarus, the ship was even called the Titanic just in case anyone missed the mythological link first time round. This is why it's a story that captures peoples imaginations still and is now part of our shared culture.
... Therefore it is perfectly legitimate to make films, write books etc based upon the story. The length of time since it happened has changed it from a story of individual loss and tragedy to a cultural event.
And what about programmes such as Allo-Allo, essentially using the occupation of France as a vehicle for national stereotypes and lewd humour, not to mention any sort of mention of the holocaust in a film or use of associated imagery such as the 'storm troopers' in Star Wars!
Sheitm,a Pance wrote:
What you is forgetting is Dr Who is a comedy/children's programme, not a serious film, hence it is inappropriate and disrespectful
And the Kate Winslett film was a documentary??? There's even a spoof of that same film called thumbtanic which stars a set of thumbs...
The point is that yes, originally the titanic was a tragedy, however through the passing of time it has become a cultural phenomenon, much like other big 'shared' events like WWI and II. Because of their prominence in our cultural narrative they take on their own importance as mythologies.
The Titanic is now essentialy a mythological story about man creating a machine to command nature (the sea) but failing. There are some parrellels with the story of Icarus, the ship was even called the Titanic just in case anyone missed the mythological link first time round. This is why it's a story that captures peoples imaginations still and is now part of our shared culture.
... Therefore it is perfectly legitimate to make films, write books etc based upon the story. The length of time since it happened has changed it from a story of individual loss and tragedy to a cultural event.
And what about programmes such as Allo-Allo, essentially using the occupation of France as a vehicle for national stereotypes and lewd humour, not to mention any sort of mention of the holocaust in a film or use of associated imagery such as the 'storm troopers' in Star Wars!
Posted by: darnall 42, sheffield on 1:18pm Mon 24 Dec 07
this is a story from the sun is it not?Typical tabloid rubbish
this is a story from the sun is it not?Typical tabloid rubbish
Posted by: Hiram Hackenbacker, Tracey Island on 1:21pm Mon 24 Dec 07
[quote][bold]Anon[/bold] wrote:
She is slamming Dr Who but has been lunching out on it for 95 years. I wonder how many events she has been pedalled out at now. Are those special iceberg spotting glasses she is wearing?[/quote] A little unfair but I hear what you are saying. From the New York Post:-
"Elizabeth Dean, 95, of Southampton, England, was only 2 months old when on April 15, 1912, the supposedly unsinkable vessel went to the bottom of the Atlantic after hitting an iceberg.
Dean, who broke her hip last year and has been living in a nursing home, became the Titanic's sole survivor when Barbara West Dainton of Truro, England, died at 96 on Oct. 16.
Dean's family, fighting for elbow space with the third-class passengers on the ill-fated liner, was en route to Wichita, Kan., to start a new life in America.
Dean, her mother, Georgette, and brother, Bertram, were all rescued and taken back to England aboard the SS Adriatic - but minus her father, Bertram Frank Dean, whose body was never recovered.
Dean didn't even know she was on the Titanic until she was 8, when her widowed mother was about to remarry. Dean never married. She didn't start getting into the Titanic spirit until the 1980s - when she was well into her 70s - when she began attending conventions and appearing on TV and radio shows.
Dean finally made it to the United States some 85 years after the tragedy, arriving here in 1997 aboard to the Queen Elizabeth 2, and visiting Wichita on an invitation."
Anon wrote:
She is slamming Dr Who but has been lunching out on it for 95 years. I wonder how many events she has been pedalled out at now. Are those special iceberg spotting glasses she is wearing?
A little unfair but I hear what you are saying. From the New York Post:-
"Elizabeth Dean, 95, of Southampton, England, was only 2 months old when on April 15, 1912, the supposedly unsinkable vessel went to the bottom of the Atlantic after hitting an iceberg.
Dean, who broke her hip last year and has been living in a nursing home, became the Titanic's sole survivor when Barbara West Dainton of Truro, England, died at 96 on Oct. 16.
Dean's family, fighting for elbow space with the third-class passengers on the ill-fated liner, was en route to Wichita, Kan., to start a new life in America.
Dean, her mother, Georgette, and brother, Bertram, were all rescued and taken back to England aboard the SS Adriatic - but minus her father, Bertram Frank Dean, whose body was never recovered.
Dean didn't even know she was on the Titanic until she was 8, when her widowed mother was about to remarry. Dean never married. She didn't start getting into the Titanic spirit until the 1980s - when she was well into her 70s - when she began attending conventions and appearing on TV and radio shows.
Dean finally made it to the United States some 85 years after the tragedy, arriving here in 1997 aboard to the Queen Elizabeth 2, and visiting Wichita on an invitation."
Posted by: Hiram Hackenbacker, Tracey Island on 1:23pm Mon 24 Dec 07
[quote][bold]WWIII[/bold] wrote:
I too am disgusted with the BBC, after turning my television on to find a film called 'The Great Escape'. I've not come across this film before, but it was disrespectful to the dead and bereaved to make entertainment of such a tragedy. I hope they realise their mistake and don't show it again.[/quote] Why not just refuse to pay your licence fee. You do pay it don't you?
WWIII wrote:
I too am disgusted with the BBC, after turning my television on to find a film called 'The Great Escape'. I've not come across this film before, but it was disrespectful to the dead and bereaved to make entertainment of such a tragedy. I hope they realise their mistake and don't show it again.
Why not just refuse to pay your licence fee. You do pay it don't you?
Posted by: RP, lancashire, England on 4:06pm Mon 24 Dec 07
Actually, I wrote a Doctor Who story that features the Titanic 3 years ago and it is a firm favourite. AND one in which 9/11 is a backdrop to the story and victims and witnesses frequently email me about it and thank me for a sensitive and throughtful tribute.
And yes, this woman HAS been involved in a lot of Titanic publicity. Dined out is the appropriate phrase. My suspicion is she was just upset at not being invited to the preview party. And perhaps the Sun weren't either, hence their attempt to have a go at the programme.
Actually, I wrote a Doctor Who story that features the Titanic 3 years ago and it is a firm favourite. AND one in which 9/11 is a backdrop to the story and victims and witnesses frequently email me about it and thank me for a sensitive and throughtful tribute.
And yes, this woman HAS been involved in a lot of Titanic publicity. Dined out is the appropriate phrase. My suspicion is she was just upset at not being invited to the preview party. And perhaps the Sun weren't either, hence their attempt to have a go at the programme.
Posted by: Sam, at home on 8:49pm Mon 24 Dec 07
Adam wrote "My Poppa...was an army cook during WW2 and lost friends hours after feeding them!"
I've heard that army food has improved since those days.
Adam wrote "My Poppa...was an army cook during WW2 and lost friends hours after feeding them!"
I've heard that army food has improved since those days.
Posted by: Gemma, southampton on 11:21pm Mon 24 Dec 07
there are many films depicting titanic, and indeed one or two about 9/11 one of whih i beleive starred nicholas cage - but what about both world wars, roman battles etc all part of history! there are so many films based on real history are all of these wrong too? most kids wouldnt even be aware of the titanic if it werent for movies depicting it and the tradgedy and sheer number of lives lost that night are the reason it is remembered at all! how many smaller ships with fewer passengers still on board at the bottom of the ocean can you name? i rest my case so to speak!
there are many films depicting titanic, and indeed one or two about 9/11 one of whih i beleive starred nicholas cage - but what about both world wars, roman battles etc all part of history! there are so many films based on real history are all of these wrong too? most kids wouldnt even be aware of the titanic if it werent for movies depicting it and the tradgedy and sheer number of lives lost that night are the reason it is remembered at all! how many smaller ships with fewer passengers still on board at the bottom of the ocean can you name? i rest my case so to speak!
Posted by: Glen, Southampton on 2:00am Tue 25 Dec 07
I see some posters above have no respect for a Titanic survivor of 95.
[bold]Shame on you.[/bold]
I see some posters above have no respect for a Titanic survivor of 95.
Shame on you. Posted by: Anon, Everywhere. on 6:16am Tue 25 Dec 07
[quote][bold]Glen[/bold] wrote:
I see some posters above have no respect for a Titanic survivor of 95.
[bold]Shame on you.[/bold] [/quote] Would you do her?
Glen wrote:
I see some posters above have no respect for a Titanic survivor of 95.
Shame on you.
Would you do her?
Posted by: Gus Tofwind, southampton on 11:37am Tue 25 Dec 07
[quote][bold]Anon[/bold] wrote:
[quote][bold]Glen[/bold] wrote: I see some posters above have no respect for a Titanic survivor of 95. [bold]Shame on you.[/bold] [/quote] Would you do her?[/quote] Teeth in or out?
Anon wrote:
Glen wrote: I see some posters above have no respect for a Titanic survivor of 95. Shame on you.
Would you do her?
Teeth in or out?
Posted by: Anon, Everywhere. on 2:41pm Tue 25 Dec 07
Bet she's gagging for a seeing to....and the teeth would probably pop out anyway.
Bet she's gagging for a seeing to....and the teeth would probably pop out anyway.
Posted by: Hiram Hackenbacker, Tracey Island on 9:07pm Tue 25 Dec 07
[quote][bold]Sheitm,a Pance[/bold] wrote:
What you is forgetting is Dr Who is a comedy/children's programme, not a serious film, hence it is inappropriate and disrespectful[/quote] I've just seen the Titanic sketch in Time Bandits - "waiter, more champagne, with plenty of ice".
Sheitm,a Pance wrote:
What you is forgetting is Dr Who is a comedy/children's programme, not a serious film, hence it is inappropriate and disrespectful
I've just seen the Titanic sketch in Time Bandits - "waiter, more champagne, with plenty of ice".
Posted by: King Mush, Woolston on 9:35pm Tue 25 Dec 07
Bruce Ismay
April 11 at sea:
"Titanic sink? Dont be silly my dear boy - this ship is made of irony!"
Bruce Ismay
April 11 at sea:
"Titanic sink? Dont be silly my dear boy - this ship is made of irony!"
Posted by: SKM, usa on 7:13am Wed 26 Dec 07
[bold]with all due respect, why wasnt such a fuss made when movies were made, such as Camerons tastless epic, and earlier movies on the same subject?[/bold]
with all due respect, why wasnt such a fuss made when movies were made, such as Camerons tastless epic, and earlier movies on the same subject? Posted by: King Mush, Woolston on 7:28pm Fri 28 Dec 07
[quote][bold]SKM[/bold] wrote:
[bold]with all due respect, why wasnt such a fuss made when movies were made, such as Camerons tastless epic, and earlier movies on the same subject?[/bold] [/quote] 'Tasteless'? I dont think so. Maybe frivolous in parts but generally a great movie and the subject was dealt with on a fairly tasteful basis, as far as one can with 'disaster' types. The public love 'em.
Not many 'earlier' movies to talk about - the 1953 (?) Night To Remember was an excellent film as well and still stands up to scrutiny today.
SKM wrote:
with all due respect, why wasnt such a fuss made when movies were made, such as Camerons tastless epic, and earlier movies on the same subject?
'Tasteless'? I dont think so. Maybe frivolous in parts but generally a great movie and the subject was dealt with on a fairly tasteful basis, as far as one can with 'disaster' types. The public love 'em.
Not many 'earlier' movies to talk about - the 1953 (?) Night To Remember was an excellent film as well and still stands up to scrutiny today.
Posted by: Volcanic, Oban on 3:36pm Sun 30 Dec 07
Hi I ve studied the story of the Titanic for years and can understand Mulvina Deans comments. Whilst I quite enjoyed the Dr Who story my work involves me with a lot of people of Mulvinas generation and whilst cimema is thought to be mature they would classify the likes of Dr Who as a childrens tv programme. Therefore she may well have thought that inclusion of the Titanic in it was trivialising what was-and still is-a dreadfull tragedy. The difference between this episode and the film "Titanic"is that-whilst a love story was included-actual crew and passengers were featured and it placed great emphasis on the tragedy of the actual sinking.
Hi I ve studied the story of the Titanic for years and can understand Mulvina Deans comments. Whilst I quite enjoyed the Dr Who story my work involves me with a lot of people of Mulvinas generation and whilst cimema is thought to be mature they would classify the likes of Dr Who as a childrens tv programme. Therefore she may well have thought that inclusion of the Titanic in it was trivialising what was-and still is-a dreadfull tragedy. The difference between this episode and the film "Titanic"is that-whilst a love story was included-actual crew and passengers were featured and it placed great emphasis on the tragedy of the actual sinking.
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